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Apistogramma sp. "Rio Malome"???

Contents:

  1. bounce: first time on list
    by Charles Ray <raychah/auburn.campus.mci.net> (Tue, 2 Feb 1999)
  2. A. sp. Rio Malomé
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Wed, 03 Feb 1999)
  3. A. sp. Rio Malomé
    by Marco Lacerda <marcolacerda/ax.apc.org> (Thu, 04 Feb 1999)
  4. A. sp. Malome - a possible answer
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Thu, 18 Mar 1999)
  5. A.sp.Malome-a possible answer
    by Marco Lacerda <marcolacerda/ax.apc.org> (Fri, 19 Mar 1999)
  6. A.sp.mamore
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Thu, 22 Jul 1999)

bounce: first time on list

by Charles Ray <raychah/auburn.campus.mci.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com


>From: "Vern Wensley" <vernwen@home.com>
>Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 12:35:56 -0800
>
>Hi everyone.I am new to the list.Hope to get lots of good information
>here.I
>am currently running 20 tanks of apistos.What I would like to find out
>is
>if
>anyone has heard the name,A.sp.rio malomé.I bought them at the local
>fish
>auction.They are not A.mamoré.I have some of them and they are a
>different
>fish.Any information anyone has would be of great help.I cant stand not
>knowing what my fish really are.I will sit down and write a detailed
>description when I find some time.Thanks .Vern
>vernwen@home.com
>
Vern, I also have this fish.  I posed a similar question to the group on
January 9th without any response other than asking if I didn't have sp. rio
mamore.  I bought 6 fish.  The fish are growing quickly, largest male is
1-1/2 inches, largest female 3/4.  I have had a successful spawn in soft
water with pH slightly less than 6. Female is raising brood of about 20 in
15 gallon tank with regular feedings of brine shrimp.  I have not yet been
impressed with colors.  Male is showing red color to rounded tail. Other
than that not much color, at least not yet.  There is a distinct spot on
base of caudal fin. Males typically show a distinct lateral band that ends
some distance prior to caudal spot.  No evidence of any other patterns on
body except hint of a line of spots along base of dorsal fin (dorsal
blotches in Mayland & Bork). Breeding male shows little or no evidence of
either marking and caudal spot is much subdued.  There does seem to be some
evidence of blue body color.  Female does tolerate male in relatively close
proximity to fry (3") and when female leaves to chase conspecifics in tank
male seems to assume protective stance immediately above fry.  This
spawning surprised me and the tank is supplied with large number of beech
leaves into which conspecifics have retreated.  These fish seem especially
intolerant of conspecifics, female will race the length of the tank to
attack a conspecific that allows itself to be visible.  I would like more
information as well, which species group does it belong with, does male
develop more color with age, how large do they grow, from where do they
originate.  Maybe Mike Wise can check his Xmas map of South America to see
if he can find Rio Malome.  I also called the seller who wasn't sure if
spelling might be Rio Malowe.

Charles Ray

Still waiting on my Apisto-Gram




A. sp. Rio Malomé

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Charles & Vern,

I think you have a new species here that's not been published anywhere. I even
asked Marco Lacerda about the Rio Malomé. The spelling is more like Portuguese
(Brazil) than Spanish (rest of South America) so I went to a native Brazilian.
Here is what he wrote:

Mike Wise wrote:

> Have you ever heard of the Rio Malomé? A couple of people have
> gotten a fish called Apistogramma sp. Rio Malomé (or just Malomé). ...

Marco Lacerda wrote:

>I have looked in a book with all toponyms names (including small rivers
>+ towns), and there is NO RIO MALOME. I think it is very likely
>mispelling of Rio Mamoré, which you know for their Apistos.
>Recently there are some Japanese fish exporters in Brazil (Goiás) and in
>Japanese language there is no difference between the sounds "re" and
>"le". So Japanese exporters call the river Rio MamoLé instead of MamoRé.
>And from there seems to be easy to have a change on the silables.
>Pls look at the fish, and let me know.

Now I'm going to make some wild guesses. From Vern's description (we corresponded
on this privately late last month), I guessed it was a member of the
eunotus-complex of the regani-group. But if this fish actually comes from the Rio
Mamoré, it's unlikely to be a eunotus-complex fish They come from the Peruvian
and western Brazilian Amazon. It may be a regani-complex fish. Marco collected a
regani-complex fish in the Rio Jaru, a tributary of the upper Rio Madeira, like
the Rio Mamoré. I may be the same or a similar species. There are also several
resticulosa-complex fish in this area, too. It may be one of them. Like Marco, I
would really like to see a picture of this fish.

Mike Wise

Charles Ray wrote:

> >From: "Vern Wensley" <vernwen@home.com>
> >Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 12:35:56 -0800
> What I would like to find out is if >anyone has heard the name,A.sp.rio malomé.
> They are not A.mamoré. I have some of them and they are a
> >different fish. Any information anyone has would be of great help.

Charles Ray wrote:

> Vern, I also have this fish.  I posed a similar question to the group on
> January 9th without any response other than asking if I didn't have sp. rio
> mamore.  I bought 6 fish.  The fish are growing quickly, largest male is
> 1-1/2 inches, largest female 3/4.  I have had a successful spawn in soft
> water with pH slightly less than 6. Female is raising brood of about 20 in
> 15 gallon tank with regular feedings of brine shrimp.  I have not yet been
> impressed with colors.  Male is showing red color to rounded tail. Other
> than that not much color, at least not yet.  There is a distinct spot on
> base of caudal fin. Males typically show a distinct lateral band that ends
> some distance prior to caudal spot.  No evidence of any other patterns on
> body except hint of a line of spots along base of dorsal fin (dorsal
> blotches in Mayland & Bork). Breeding male shows little or no evidence of
> either marking and caudal spot is much subdued.  There does seem to be some
> evidence of blue body color.  Female does tolerate male in relatively close
> proximity to fry (3") and when female leaves to chase conspecifics in tank
> male seems to assume protective stance immediately above fry.  This
> spawning surprised me and the tank is supplied with large number of beech
> leaves into which conspecifics have retreated.  These fish seem especially
> intolerant of conspecifics, female will race the length of the tank to
> attack a conspecific that allows itself to be visible.  I would like more
> information as well, which species group does it belong with, does male
> develop more color with age, how large do they grow, from where do they
> originate.  Maybe Mike Wise can check his Xmas map of South America to see
> if he can find Rio Malome.  I also called the seller who wasn't sure if
> spelling might be Rio Malowe.



> Still waiting on my Apisto-Gram
>
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> For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
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A. sp. Rio Malomé

by Marco Lacerda <marcolacerda/ax.apc.org>
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Mike & Diane Wise wrote:

> Now I'm going to make some wild guesses. From Vern's description (we corresponded
> on this privately late last month), I guessed it was a member of the
> eunotus-complex of the regani-group. But if this fish actually comes from the Rio
> Mamoré, it's unlikely to be a eunotus-complex fish They come from the Peruvian
> and western Brazilian Amazon. It may be a regani-complex fish. Marco collected a
> regani-complex fish in the Rio Jaru, a tributary of the upper Rio Madeira, like
> the Rio Mamoré. I may be the same or a similar species. There are also several
> resticulosa-complex fish in this area, too. It may be one of them. Like Marco, I
> would really like to see a picture of this fish.

The Apistogramma sp. from Rio Jaru was also examined by Sven Kullander, 
who told me they are identical to a species he had already seen from the 
vicinity of Guajará-Mirim (the main river there is Rio Mamoré). So I 
think this information reinforces Mike's suposition.


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A. sp. Malome - a possible answer

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999
To: Apisto Mailing List <apisto/admin.listbox.com>

Thanks to Marco Lacerda's diligent detective work with Japanese books
and magazines, we now think we know what A. sp. Malome actually is -
sort of.

In the book, The Aquarium 2300 Atlas, by Minoru Matuzaka, published by
Fair Wind Co. Ltd, there is a species called  A. sp. "MAMORE BLUE"
(AP513). Since the book is written in Japanese script, and there is no
"r" in the Japanese language, it is called "ma mo LAY" in Japan.
Somewhere between Japan and Europe some letters in the name got
transposed from (in Latin characters) Mamole to Malome.

This is not the blue form of the A. trifasciata-like A. sp. Mamoré that
Staeck introduced to the hobby. According to Marco, "They used this name
for a fish related to A. sp. Lagoa Abuna (=A. sp. "ABUNA" AP502 of this
book) which I have collected in the same lake (beside the Rio Pacaas
Novos, Rio Mamore-drainage) along with A. staecki and A. sp. Mamore
(Staeck's one!!!)."  We are both fairly  certain that this is the same
fish being sold as A. sp. Malome.

Check Aqualog SAII, page 63,  for a photo of A. sp. Lagua (SIC) Abuna.
There is also a picture of one in Bleher, Heiko, 1993, Abunã,
Aqua-Geõgraphia 6(4): 6-19 listed as A. sp. nov (page 17). Those of you
who have A. sp. Malome check to see if A. sp. Lagoa Abuna resembles your
fish and let us know.

Mike Wise




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A.sp.Malome-a possible answer

by Marco Lacerda <marcolacerda/ax.apc.org>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999
To: apisto/admin.listbox.com

Vern Wensley wrote:
> 
> Hi Mike and Marco.
> A.sp.LAGUA-ABUNA is very,very close to the fish I have.Body shape and finage
> are almost identical.Add red color to the caudal fin and blue spangling to
> the cheeks and you would have my fish.The picture of the female is close
> except for the black markings below the lateral line.When they were young I
> had suspicions that they might be regani,because they had the regani
> barring.You guys sure know your stuff,thanks for all the help!
> I better mention that I am looking at the pics in the Aqualog.
> Vern.
> Ps.Are they a regani fish?

Dear Vern:
Yes, you are right; both fishes are very closely related, if not the 
same one.
A. sp. Lagoa Abuna comes from the town of 'Placido de Castro' (Acre 
State, Brazil) in a lake besides Rio Abuna (left-bank tributary of Rio 
Madeira); A. sp. Malome (=AP513 = A. sp. Mamore blue) comes from lower 
Rio Mamoré (Rondonia State, Brazil), just before its confluence with Rio 
Beni, when it then receives the name of Rio Madeira (same Rio Madeira as 
to which Rio Abuna is a tributary).
Both localities are distant about 225 kilometers one from the other in 
straight line.
I will leave to Mike two points, after he sees the "Atlas 2300" picture:

1) If both fishes are identical or not;
2) Since A. sp. Mamore blue is already being used for the "blue form" of 
the fish currently in the hobby as A. sp. Mamore, which common name 
should apply to "AP513".

Cheers.




A.sp.mamore

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999
To: apisto/admin.listbox.com

Andrew,

Two things. #1. Our Fearless List Master prefers that we
only use basic ASCII script and no extras. It's not that he
hates inventiveness, etc. It's only that it takes up a lot
of extra KBs that may overload the system. This is just a
friendly reminder to all who use exotic fonts and colors.

#2. Your description doesn't sound like the standard A. sp.
Mamoré, like the ones that Mike Jacobs has pictured so
beautifully. At 2" (5 cm) SL (standard length) A. sp. Mamoré
males should have extended front dorsal fin lappets. A. sp.
Mamoré doesn't have a caudal spot either. Nor does it have a
red pectoral spot. It does have a metallic red spot on the
lower gill cover, however. The caudal fin pattern of fine,
pale, dots doesn't sound right for this species either. You
don't mention the lateral spot that is conspicuous on this
species, at least on juveniles and females.

I get a feeling that you have a regani-group species that
comes in under the name A. sp. Malome. I have never seen
this fish nor has anyone, to my knowledge, published a photo
of it. From descriptions in the past it might be a species
called A. sp. Blaukopf (Blue-head) in Germany, A. sp. New
Blue (in Japan), or A. sp. Steel Blue (in Römer's Atlas).

I would really like to see a photo of the fish being sold as
A. sp. Malome - even a bad one. Does anyone have any?

Mike Wise

Andrew Faust wrote:

>     i think my male might not be mature enough yet to
> manifest all the diagnostic characteristics. i took a
> closer look last night, and i'll try to give a more
> complete description here, using Mike Wise's ID worksheet
> as a guide. these are descriptions of the male; the
> females are too shy to get a nice long look.     length
> not including tail is ~2". body has a metallic blue-green
> sheen, much like the pictures in the site below. the
> 'belly' is generally a light color, whitish or
> yellowish.     i noticed there is a very faint lateral
> band, when seen in the right light (definitely not
> prominent or dark).    there are brown dorsal blotches,
> maybe 5 or 6 spaced regularly along the base of the dorsal
> fin. there are more small brown splotches on the top of
> his head and 'face'.    there is no discernable sub- or
> superorbital stripe.    the dorsal fin has an extension
> reaching almost to the caudal fin, but it has no big
> 'spikes' on the first few rays as seen in the picture on
> the link below. instead, the front bit of the fin is
> colored black. the fin itself, i noticed, does indeed have
> a faint reddish hue.    the pectoral fins have a reddish
> 'insertion point' right behind the gill plate.    ventral
> fins are very faintly bluish, with long extensions that
> have a light coloration (white or yellow).    there is a
> vertical caudal spot, not black, but it's discernable.
> the caudal fin - this is cool - when i really looked
> closely i could see little spots covering it. the spots
> were a color similar to the light bluish of the body. if
> i'm remembering correctly the field color of the fin is
> very faintly reddish. ok so maybe i've run this horse into
> the ground, but since i don't have many good books to
> diagnose with (yet), this is the next best thing. plus i
> figure you guys love this kind of thing. i know i enjoy
> reading detailed observations made by others.    i guess
> my main curiosity about this is, how much (if any) can i
> expect this guy to change as he matures?




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