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Apistos herd things other than their own fry!

Contents:

  1. Apisto Norberti unusual behaviour
    by "Helen Burns" <hlnburns/thefree.net> (Sun, 11 Oct 1998)
  2. surrogate mothers
    by Mayalauren/aol.com (Sat, 14 Nov 1998)
  3. surrogate mothers
    by Piabinha/aol.com (Sat, 14 Nov 1998)
  4. Re surrogate mothers
    by Mayalauren/aol.com (Sat, 14 Nov 1998)
  5. Re surrogate mothers
    by "Vinod Kutty" <VKUTTY/prodigy.net> (Sat, 14 Nov 1998)
  6. Parenting cichlid gone overboard
    by "Helen Burns" <helen.burns/bigwig.net> (Fri, 2 Apr 1999)
  7. RE: multiple broods in same tank??
    by "Beaudry, Kyle : SEN" <KBEAUDRY/SEN.PARL.GC.CA> (Tue, 2 May 2000)
  8. multiple broods in same tank??
    by "Helen Burns" <helen.burns/bigwig.net> (Tue, 2 May 2000)
  9. RE: multiple broods in same tank??
    by Ken Laidlaw <kl/roe.ac.uk> (Tue, 2 May 2000)
  10. RE: multiple broods in same tank??
    by Ken Laidlaw <kl/roe.ac.uk> (Tue, 2 May 2000)
  11. krib fry!
    by Frauley/Elson <fraulels/minet.ca> (Sat, 08 Apr 2000)

Apisto Norberti unusual behaviour

by "Helen Burns" <hlnburns/thefree.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998
To: "Apistogramma" <apisto/majordomo.pobox.com>

I thought the following unusual behaviour would interest the list.
My friends witnessed the following.  They had only acquired a pair of
Norberti for two days when Tom noticed the female in full brooding colour.
He looked all over the tank but there was no spawning to be seen.
Continually the female raced about the tank appearing to gather her brood.
It was a mystery to Tom as she was covering every area in the tank.  Looking
closely with the aid of a magnifying glass all became very clear she was
herding up grindal worms and placing them into a pit.  Apistogramma females
have been known to herd daphnia if fed while she is caring for fry but
this behaviour of the female Norberi is something new.
Helen.


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surrogate mothers

by Mayalauren/aol.com
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

My female cf. cruzi died this morning leaving me with about 30 week old fry.
After the recent thread on this subject and some advise from Tsuh Yang I added
the fry to the 10 that my pertensis is guarding.They are about 4 days older...

She quickly herded them all together...so far so good. The male pertensis
seems very irate and is displaying aggressively to her (she can handle it). I
wonder if he knows something is up?

I'll keep you posted
Jason


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surrogate mothers

by Piabinha/aol.com
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

jason, the only problem i see with this arrangement is separating the fish
when they grow up.  can you tell the females from both species apart?

btw, you mean 30 one-week old fry, not 30-week old fry.  and next time, call
me at a decent hour (i know it was an emergency but...).  :-)

tsuh yang chen, nyc

In a message dated 98-11-14 10:50:03 EST, jason writes:

<< My female cf. cruzi died this morning leaving me with about 30 week old
fry.
 After the recent thread on this subject and some advise from Tsuh Yang I
added
 the fry to the 10 that my pertensis is guarding.They are about 4 days
older...
 
 She quickly herded them all together...so far so good. The male pertensis
 seems very irate and is displaying aggressively to her (she can handle it). I
 wonder if he knows something is up?
 
 I'll keep you posted
 Jason >>


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Re surrogate mothers

by Mayalauren/aol.com
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Just an observasion I'd like to share...
It's interesting that the cruzi fry understand the pertensis females'
instructions. The females of the two species look very different, especially
in brood colouration, so It seems to me that the brood colours are displayed
to other adults, and it's actually the fin twitching etc. that the fry respond
to. Maybe it's a language that all apistos understand, regardless of species.
Jason


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Re surrogate mothers

by "Vinod Kutty" <VKUTTY/prodigy.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998
To: <apisto/majordomo.pobox.com>



>Just an observasion I'd like to share...
>It's interesting that the cruzi fry understand the pertensis females'
>instructions. The females of the two species look very different,
especially
>in brood colouration, so It seems to me that the brood colours are
displayed
>to other adults, and it's actually the fin twitching etc. that the fry
respond
>to. Maybe it's a language that all apistos understand, regardless of
species.
>Jason


That's interesting observation, Jason.  Fin twitching is found in a lot of
cichlid species.  Females seem to do it more often than males.  I have a
week old swarm of Laetacara sp. Orange fin and the female is twitching like
crazy.  West African Hemichromis elongatus do it too.  Appears like it is
the cichlid equivalent of 'Hey! Get your butts back here!'

Vinny
vkutty@prodigy.net
http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/5491/




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Parenting cichlid gone overboard

by "Helen Burns" <helen.burns/bigwig.net>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999
To: <apisto/admin.listbox.com>

Quite recently I noticed my 8 inch female gold Severum  fanning
Microgeophagus altispinosa spawn.  The small altis were almost having a fit
when this huge blimp decided to take over for a short while.
A friend also observed an Apisto. norberti female herding grindal worms, she
was in full brooding colours.
Helen

>My cousin Alex has two female borelliis in a tank together.  Today he
>noticed that one of them has turned yellow.  Looking more closely, and
>*really* checking things out, he discovered that she is guarding 3 clumps
>of snail's eggs on the glass of the aquarium.  She does not have her own
eggs
>anywhere.  Poor little creature.
>We've had female borelliis take turns fanning Angelfish eggs as well.  Talk
>about maternal instinct!!!
>G. Kadar<




RE: multiple broods in same tank??

by "Beaudry, Kyle : SEN" <KBEAUDRY/SEN.PARL.GC.CA>
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000
To: "'apisto/majordomo.pobox.com'" <apisto/majordomo.pobox.com>

Mornin' John;

I have had that experience with my Cacatuoides, and you acted wisely.
When I got my first successful brood, I siphoned off 2/3 to 3/4 of the brood
and left the rest to see what would transpire since mom had a new batch of
fry. When first noticed there were about fifty free swimmers. There were
still seven young from the first clutch (1/2 inch or so). The young brood
dwindled to about a dozen in the first three days (I assumed it was the
older ones - only because I did not lose any of the first brood). Also, mom
and dad made quick work (a week) of cutting the number of older babies from
seven to two. They also had help from harem female No. 2 (Snapped a pic of
that ). Since then the two remaining older fry have survived to an inch and
a half but none of the subsequent broods fair so well. I am leaving any new
free swimmers as fodder for the rest as I have no more room to rear (first
brood still growing well). As soon as they vacate my rearing tank I will
fill it with more. Until then, bigger fish eat little fish (I see it as
cheap food - hope that doesn't offend anyone). They are sure an interesting
species to watch and experiment with. I have now noticed that the two older
fry are male and female, they are eight weeks old and already dancing with
each other. The little male is even gill puffing at dad (funniest thing I've
ever seen-David and Goliath). The little female has staked claim to a small
cave in neutral territory, mom and Harem Female No. 2 are starting to accept
her (as much as they do with each other). Quite the little community now and
much fun to watch develop.


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	BigJohnW@webtv.net [SMTP:BigJohnW@webtv.net]
> Sent:	Tuesday, May 02, 2000 1:42 AM
> To:	Apisto@admin.listbox.com
> Subject:	multiple broods in same tank??
> 
> Hello All
> 
> I wanted to know what were everyones experiences with more than one
> brood in the same tank with the parents at the same time. 
> 
> Reason i ask is i just siphoned off about 50+ free swimming fry from one
> of my pairs of Cacatuoides.   The reason for doing this is that i
> already have about a dozen or so 1/4 -3/8 inch long fry hanging out with
> mom and pop.   They do a good job hiding up in the thick layer of
> watersprite.   After the pair spawned again, i saw mom chasing the older
> youngsters and they swam back up into the watersprite where mom couldn't
> find them.    I was wondering if i had left the younger fry in the tank,
> if mom would have done an adequate job guarding them from older siblings
> canabalism.   
> 
> I'm glad i did siphon them off because now i have a really large batch
> of fry to grow out, but would have liked to have seen what would have
> happened if i had left them in the tank.
> 
> Any experiences with multiple broods in the same tank will be
> appreciated.   Oh i had these guys in a ten gallon tank, bare bottom, pH
> of 6.0 and 15 ppm hardness with a temp of 76F.  Figured someone would
> have asked the tank parameters so here they are in advance.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> John W
> 
> 
> 
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> For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
> email apisto-request@listbox.com.
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multiple broods in same tank??

by "Helen Burns" <helen.burns/bigwig.net>
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000
To: <apisto/majordomo.pobox.com>

John,
There are two species spring immediately to my mind.
Ap. macmasteri.  I had three broods all growing well and unharmed in the
tank with the parents.
Ap. sp. Rio Xingu Red Lobes.  Same as Macmasteri.
Helen

> I wanted to know what were everyones experiences with more than one
> brood in the same tank with the parents at the same time.
>
> Any experiences with multiple broods in the same tank will be
> appreciated.
> Thanks
> John W




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RE: multiple broods in same tank??

by Ken Laidlaw <kl/roe.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000
To: "'apisto/majordomo.pobox.com'" <apisto/majordomo.pobox.com>

I had two broods of A. sp. "four stripes" in the same tank.  The secong
brood were only about two weeks old and were unharmed by the parents.

Ken.

> > I wanted to know what were everyones experiences with more than one
> > brood in the same tank with the parents at the same time.
> >
> > Any experiences with multiple broods in the same tank will be
> > appreciated.
> > Thanks
> > John W


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RE: multiple broods in same tank??

by Ken Laidlaw <kl/roe.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000
To: "'apisto/majordomo.pobox.com'" <apisto/majordomo.pobox.com>

> I had two broods of A. sp. "four stripes" in the same tank.  
> The secong
> brood were only about two weeks old and were unharmed by the parents.
> 
> Ken.

Not such good news with my current pair of A.panduro. I had about ten fry of
three weeks old which disappeared after the adults spawned again.  Don't
know who ate them.
Hopefully the new batch will appear in the next few days.

Ken.


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krib fry!

by Frauley/Elson <fraulels/minet.ca>
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Jose J.V. Carvalho wrote:
> 
> Not exactly, but a pair that I've had many years ago, used to stay each with
> a group (~½ of them) and, when bored, steal more fry from the other : )
> 
> Zeco
> http://sites.netscape.net/zecocarvalho/
> 
> -----Mensagem Original-----
> De: <CarlHans@aol.com>
> >
> >Anyone else witness this behavior of the male tending with fry without the
> > female?
> >
> > - Carl ( a lurker who makes sure his subject lines are appropriate )

It isn't the same thing, but I'm having a grand time watching my
wild-caught macmasteri with their fry. I have 3 adults in a 30 inch, 23
gallon. There is the breeding pair, and a 3rd, small fish with enough
face colouration I've wondered if it was a 'sleeper' male. The female
walled herself into a cave, with no opening, for a few days, then
brought out a big gaggle of 100+ fry.
Now comes the similarity to Carl's kribs.
All three macmasteri spend the day with their own gaggles of fry. The
mother's is always the biggest, but the other fish lead around 20-30
fish each. When their paths cross, the adults posture and scrap, but
continue on with remixed bunches.
Now comes another twist. In the evening, half my lights click off 30
minutes before the room darkens down to a single bulb (which stays on
overnight). When the first bunch of lights go off, the male and the
mystery gender macmasteri bring their schools to the female, who takes
over the whole bunch in a large clump of java moss and algae in the
corner. In the morning, I've never seen the transfer back, but as far as
I can tell, the fry school spreads out and the three fish herd together
their own groups, depending on whose micro-territory the fry go to.
This is one of the most interesting things I have ever seen in an
Apistogramma tank. I had macmasteri before when they were commonly
available, back around 92-93, and I never saw behavior like this. When
spawning they acted like any other Apistogramma.
-Gary


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