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Parents Moving Eggs/Fry?

Contents:

  1. Fry and moving eggs
    by Ken Laidlaw <K.Laidlaw/roe.ac.uk> (Fri, 19 Dec 1997)
  2. Fry and moving eggs
    by Kathryn Olson <Reskko/vmmc.org> (Thu, 18 Dec 1997)
  3. RE: Fry and moving eggs
    by "Mroz, Tom" <tmroz/art-inc.com> (Fri, 19 Dec 1997)
  4. RE: Fry and moving eggs -Reply
    by Kathryn Olson <Reskko/vmmc.org> (Mon, 29 Dec 1997)

Fry and moving eggs

by Ken Laidlaw <K.Laidlaw/roe.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Hi,

Yes, I've seen female apistos moving eggs, wrigglers and 
fry in the mouth.  My "Puerto Narino" female moved hers a 
few times between one pot and another which were only a few 
inches apart.  It took her several trips to move them all.

Ken.

*****************************
Ken Laidlaw
Royal Observatory, Edinburgh
Tel: 0131-668 8100
Fax: 0131-668 1130
Web: http://www.roe.ac.uk
*****************************



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Fry and moving eggs

by Kathryn Olson <Reskko/vmmc.org>
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997
To: george.barwood/dial.pipex.com, apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

George,

Congrats on the fry!!!

We use Fredrik's method of baby brine and micro worms, but invariable I
get too busy and forget to reculture the worms...and that is the end of
that so it is just baby brine.

In a pinch if for some reason I don't have baby brine available I will use
Tetra Micro min (or some version of pulverized fry food) did this once for
a whole batch of fry (ran out of brine) and they did fine.  They grow
faster though with the live food.

I was glad to hear you talk about the female cacatuoides moving her fry
with her mouth, ours did this as well.  Something also very interesting
was that our female nijsseni moved her eggs and then later her fry as
well.  I had never seen this egg moving behavior before, has anyone
else seen this.  I was talking with Wayne Liebel about this and we were
theorizing perhaps this was mouth brooding in evolution.  What are your
guys experience with this???  I have to review our old fish videotapes, if
I am lucky we may have some of this on video.  She was one paranoid
nijsseni and everytime you looking in the tank, she then moved her fry.

Kathy
 

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RE: Fry and moving eggs

by "Mroz, Tom" <tmroz/art-inc.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997
To: "'apisto/majordomo.pobox.com'" <apisto/majordomo.pobox.com>

When you folks see egg moving, can you see where the female actually
puts the eggs?  When they are laid, they are attached, usually in a
gravity defying position, right to the spawning cave.  But if the female
detaches them to move them, I can't see any choice but to lay them on
the bottom of the next cave.  If this is the case, do you see any effect
on egg/fry mortality - reduced hatch rate?

Further, when do you see the movement?  If it is after a few days, and
your temperature is on the high side, the female is probably not moving
eggs, but rather young wigglers.  That's a whole different story.  When
first hatched, it's pretty hard to distinguish the eggs from the
wigglers.  One non-intrusive way is to immediatly examine the original
spawning site.  If you look at the inside of the cave (mine are all
small flowerpots, so this is pretty easy to see) underwater and bright
lighting, you should be able to see the thin, almost clear shell casings
from the eggs still attached to the cave.  You know then that the female
has moved wigglers, not eggs.  Remember, the females do tend to assist
the fry out of the eggs by mouthing them, so she might be mouthing and
moving all at once.  This I have seen, but never moving of the actual
eggs.

Tom

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RE: Fry and moving eggs -Reply

by Kathryn Olson <Reskko/vmmc.org>
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997
To: tmroz/art-inc.com, apisto/majordomo.pobox.com



>>> "Mroz, Tom" <tmroz-at-art-inc.com> 12/19/97 05:13am >>>
When you folks see egg moving, can you see where the female actually
puts the eggs?  When they are laid, they are attached, usually in a
gravity defying position, right to the spawning cave.  But if the female
detaches them to move them, I can't see any choice but to lay them on
the bottom of the next cave.  If this is the case, do you see any effect
on egg/fry mortality - reduced hatch rate?

Tom,

I originally have seen them attached to the top of a cave or pot, when
she moved them they were always on the ground after that.  

>>>Further, when do you see the movement?  If it is after a few days,
and
your temperature is on the high side, the female is probably not moving
eggs, but rather young wigglers.  That's a whole different story.  When
first hatched, it's pretty hard to distinguish the eggs from the
wigglers.

---she'll move them up to 12 hours after spawning, once less than that. 
Usually I started to see  movement at 2-3 days.  I had never seen the egg
moving at all either, and at first distrusted my observations, then after
seeing this repeated on further spawns,it was just too early to be
wrigglers.  I was wondering if I just had one very paranoid fish that was
hypervigilant or if others saw it as well.  Then there always is the
question on how did mouth brooding evolve, and perhaps this is a hint at
the sequence (the scientist in me).  Here spawns were smaller than
what I have heard of or seen for nijsseni.  They were up to 30.  Usually
in the 20's.  

Kathy


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