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Water Pumps

Contents:

  1. PUMP FAQ: Final version
    by pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu (JEFF PFOHL) (1 Mar 1995)
  2. Rena C40
    by clark/shannon.ee.wits.ac.za (Alan Clark) (23 Jan 92)
  3. (M) Another pump question....
    by enenkel/cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel) (24 Jan 92)
  4. Hydrothruster experiences wanted
    by closeout/mtgy.gtegsc.com (13 Oct 1993)
  5. want filter recommendations
    by enenkel/cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel) (20 Feb 92)
  6. [M][R] Quiet One vs Iwaki
    by SRRapp/ccmail.monsanto.com (Stephen Rapp) (Mon, 31 Jan 1994)

PUMP FAQ: Final version

by pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu (JEFF PFOHL)
Date: 1 Mar 1995
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria,sci.aquaria

--

****************** Pump FAQ **********************************
revised 2/27/95

What follows is a collection of treads about aquarium pumps from the
*.aquarium newsgroups.



Pump model   liked  disliked   typical comments
============================================================
Rena C40        1             pond pump
Hydrothruster   3
Eheim           3      1      high quality
Quite One      11      6      quite, hot, defects, good value
Little Giant    4      5      powerful & loud?
Iwaki           1      5      loud?, MD series better than WMD
Magnum 350             1      not a real pump
MiniJets        1             circulation only
============================================================

NOTE: these comments should be taken lightly and only used as a
minimal source of info since the opinions are based on particular
applications. They are also a summary based on someone else's views of
the threads below. While a pump may be liked it may not be suitable for
what you want to do. Thus PLEASE read the posts that follow.

************************************************************************

~From: clark-at-shannon.ee.wits.ac.za (Alan Clark)
~Date: 23 Jan 92 06:38:30 GMT
~Newsgroups: alt.aquaria
~Subject: Re: Rena C40

In <12856-at-vela.acs.oakland.edu> dlcogswe-at-vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell) writes:

>Anybody had any experiences, good or bad, with the Rena C40 pump? 
>How well does it work as a pump compared to the Hagen 802 powerhead?
>I've heard the 802 doesn't work so well, as it tends to generate heat
>and it really wasn't made to pump water up.  Any comments?

>-- 
>Dan Cogswell               dlcogswe-at-vela.acs.oakland.edu

I have a Rena C40 job in my fish pond outside.... (3.5 by 2.5 by 0.7 or 
so in a standard kidney shape) I have a "biological" filter of sorts (two
plastic pot plant containers, sand, cloth etc) on the intake of the pump
which is submersed. The pump output is fed by 12mm tube to the top of a 
0.7m high rockery/waterfall feature, complete with birdbath facilities.

For such a dinky little pump, I must confess to it working beyond all 
possible expectations! It maintains quite a decent flowrate (Unless its 
filter cleaning time :-) and doesn't seem to mind the effects of the rather 
harsh S.A sunshine - although it is advertised as being an "indoor only"
pump.

****************************************************************************

~From: enenkel-at-cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
~Date: 24 Jan 92 02:00:10 GMT
~Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria
~Subject: Re: (M)  Another pump question....

( Jon Edwards ) writes:

>I'm about to order an Eheim hobby/sump pump.  I need to pump about 100gph [...]
>  If I put a valve to slightly restrict the output of the larger pump(160gph),
>will that create too much backpressure on it?  I don't want to kill a $60
>pump.....  (I'd use a powerhead, but I've heard of many people burning them
>out doing just the same thing).

The power required to drive a centrifugal pump decreases as you restrict 
the output.  Therefore you cannot burn out a centrifugal pump (such as the
Eheim hobby pumps) by restricting the output.  (Propeller pumps and positive
displacement pumps are a different story!)

Robert Enenkel


****************************************************************************

~From: closeout-at-mtgy.gtegsc.com
~Date: 13 Oct 1993 14:16:14 GMT
~Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
~Subject: Re: Hydrothruster experiences wanted

In article 3C0-at-acsu.buffalo.edu, poulin-at-cs.buffalo.edu (Marc C Poulin) writes:
> Does anyone use the Hydrothruster Q or Hydrothruster 2Q pump made by
> filtronics.  From their literature (and pricing) they seem to be a better
> deal than the Little Giant pumps: they use less electricity, and pump
> nearly as much water.  Any experiences (positive or negative) would be
> appreciated.  Posting or email is fine.
 -- 

I have had two of the QVs on my 220 gal for many years. They seem to last
about 3 years at 400 gph at 6' head. They need to be oiled every 6 months.
They accumulated dust should be blown out at that time to aid cooling.

I recently replaced one with an energy efficient version of the QV. The unit
uses a third of the power as the original QV and is even quieter. I recommend
spending the extra $10-$15 for this updated model, if you decide on Hydrothrusters.


****************************************************************************

~From: enenkel-at-cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
~Date: 20 Feb 92 18:37:30 GMT
~Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria
~Subject: Re: want filter recommendations

I wrote:

>Amen, Phil!  That makes two of us that Eheims seem to have an allergy to.
>I've had a 2017 that went through 3 rotors and is now retired, and two
>2034's that are limping along with burned bearings and motor overhauls 
>every 2 months or so.

I forgot that not everyone knows the net.history of Eheims, so I'd better
add that, aside from Phil and myself, no one else on the net seems to have
had any trouble at all with Eheims!  People have had them for 8+ years
and never replaced a rotor.  Beats me.  Robert Enenkel


****************************************************************************
From : pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu (JEFF PFOHL)
~Subject: [Q] QUIET ONE PUMPS: OPINIONS WANTED
~Date: 7 Dec 1994 04:14:40 GMT

--
I'm currently looking for a pump to power my Top Fathom 400 venturi
skimmer. I currently have an Eheim 1060 but an looking for more gph
and pressure. I am considering the LG 4 MDQ-SC but have heard that it
can be noisy due to the cooling fan. Someone suggested the Quiet One
pump and states:
"a Quiet One is silent and vibrationless by comparison to the 1060."

and

"It's a lot better than the 1060, the max head is 15 ft, 6.5 psi, but
on paper the LG4 is better at 10.5 psi and 24 ft head ..."

Sounds good to me but I'd like to collect a few more opinions before
making a decision. Any comments on the noise level of the LG4 or the
performance of the Quiet One will be GREATLY appreciated!!!


****************************************************************************

>From Stephen.Parry-at-Forsythe.Stanford.EDU Wed Dec  7 11:48:37 1994
~Date:     Tue,  6 Dec 94 07:44:38 PST
~From: "Stephen Parry"   <Stephen.Parry-at-Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
To: pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu
~Subject:  Re: [M][Q] HOW LOUD IS THE LG4 MDQ-SC

Jeff, I don't know about the pump you list, but I can tell you that
a "Quiet One" is silent and vibrationless by comparison to the 1060.
It also pumps way more water further for less $. The downside is
that it is non-submersible. This is from direct comparison, I had
two 1060's, but when I added a chiller I replaced one 1060 with a
QO, use the 1060 for the chiller, and the QO to run the two
spray bars which each had a 1060 before.

Stephen

****************************************************************************


>From Stephen.Parry-at-Forsythe.Stanford.EDU Wed Dec  7 11:49:40 1994
~Date:     Tue,  6 Dec 94 09:03:56 PST
~From: "Stephen Parry"   <Stephen.Parry-at-Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
To: pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu
~Subject:  Re: [M][Q] HOW LOUD IS THE LG4 MDQ-SC

REPLY TO 12/06/94 08:26 FROM pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu "Jeff Pfohl": [M][Q]
HOW LOUD IS THE LG4 MDQ-SC

It's a lot better than the 1060, the max head is 15 ft, 6.5 psi, but
on paper the LG4 is better at 10.5 psi and 24 ft head (but in 1/2"
pipe).

I guess it depends on the venturi, but unless it really thins down
dramatically I'm not sure I would see it as a pressure application,
vs say a canister filter.

I've a TF 200 which I've played with, and it didn't seem to me that
the venturi is a classic restriction type design, in fact for all
I've heard about TF I'm not really impressed.  Stephen


P.S. The best thing I ever did (well in this context at least) was
to move the tank so the sump 'n stuff all live in the garage,
leaving just a relaxing trickling sound in the living room.


****************************************************************************

To:  pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu


>From bryan.lukoni-at-mindlink.bc.ca Wed Dec  7 11:49:53 1994
To: pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu (JEFF PFOHL)
~From: bryan.lukoni-at-mindlink.bc.ca (Bryan Lukoni)
~Subject: Re: [Q] QUIET ONE PUMPS: OPINIONS WANTED
~Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 11:14:50 +1000

In article: pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu (JEFF PFOHL) writes:
>From: pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu (JEFF PFOHL)
>Subject: [Q] QUIET ONE PUMPS: OPINIONS WANTED
>Date: 7 Dec 1994 04:14:40 GMT

I have a Quiet One and am quite pleased with it.  It is so quiet that you 
can't hear it if you are two feet away or so.  It does add some heat to the 
water.  Raises the temp in my 55 a 3 or 4 of degrees.

-=Bryan=-

****************************************************************************

~Date: Wed, 7 Dec 94 07:52:26 -0600
~From: jay_weissler-at-il.us.swissbank.com (Jay Weissler)
To: pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu (JEFF PFOHL)
~Subject: Re: [Q] QUIET ONE PUMPS: OPINIONS WANTED

Jeff,
I can't tell you anything about the quiet one pumps, but I've seen a lot of  sales on iwaki stuff recently.  I'm no pump expert, but they look to be a lot lower wattage for water pumped than the others. I can tell you that they are NOT quiet on my personal absolute upscale.  The best prices I found were at Champion Lighting supply (you might try them for prices on whatever pump you decide to go with). Let me know if you need a phone number. I don't have it here.

jayw

****************************************************************************

~From: Steve Goldman <sgoldman-at-encore.com>
~Date: Wed, 7 Dec 94 09:50:26 -0500
To: PFOHL-at-NUCMAR.PHYSICS.FSU.EDU
~Subject: LG vs. quiet one.



  I've owned both the quiet one and the LG MD4. There is no doubt that
the quiet one is the quietest pump I've have had. (I have an Iwaki also).
The LG is the noisest of the three. However the original quiet ones were
garbage. They typically siezed with less than a year of operation. Since
they are so quiet it makes it much less obvious when they failed. I've 
heard that they have changed the design so that this isn't a problem
but have no direct experience. Given the experience I had I would never
use one in a critical application (like circulation for a trickle filter
for example) unless I had a backup. In a protein skimmer you are probably
in a safer situation (being out of operation for a few days would be bad
but not deadly). 

Steve Goldman, Encore Computer Corp          (919) 481-3730
901 Kildaire Farm Rd., bldg D  Cary, NC  27511       USA
internet: sgoldman-at-encore.com 


****************************************************************************

~Date: Wed, 7 Dec 94 09:05 MST
~From: charlie-at-az.stratus.com (Charles_Spitzer)
To: pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu (JEFF PFOHL)
~Subject: Re: [Q] QUIET ONE PUMPS: OPINIONS WANTED


i have 2 lg2 pumps on my 55 reef, one for the return from the  
sump and the other for driving my red sea skimmer. they both  
can drown out low conversation near them. i wish i had gone  
with different ones.
--
Charles Spitzer
charlie-at-snowflake.az.stratus.com
Telecom Customer Assistance Center
Stratus Computer, Inc.
Phoenix, AZ  85018

****************************************************************************

~From: aod-at-ornl.gov (D. Bryan Allen)
~Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria
~Subject: Re: [Q] QUIET ONE PUMPS: OPINIONS WANTED
~Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 16:01:10 GMT

jeff,

i used a quiet one on my reef for about 3 years (65 gallon). i was/am 
completely satisfied with the pump. it is extremely quiet and produces no 
discernible vibration to speak of. i have a friend who used one on a 55 gallon 
community setup also. similar review from him. the pump also has some 
automatic shutoff electronics in event of overheating (such as when sump runs 
dry). this may be standard, but it sure saved my butt on several occasions. As 
for g.p.m., head, and whatnot i don't know the stats but i ran a 1" siphon to 
my wet/dry and sump and 3/4" line from the pump to the tank. i also tee'd in a 
resin rather large resin chamber. the pump provided more than adequate flow. 
in fact i kept it valved down about 1/3. my only caveat would be that at times 
i wondered if the pump wasn't running a bit warmer than i would've liked.

hope this helps.

peace,
b.a. 

****************************************************************************

~From: malloy-at-cs.clemson.edu (Brian)
~Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
~Subject: Re: [Q] QUIET ONE PUMPS: OPINIONS WANTED
~Date: 7 Dec 1994 14:27:42 GMT

I am currently using 2 Quiet One pumps. They are absolutely noiseless
and no vibrations at all. One of the Quiet ones is not even bolted
to the floor; I mean, why bother. It doesn't move a bit. However,
these 2 pumps only move water. One moves water from my sump to the top 
my tank and the other moves water from one side of the tank, through
a spray bar affair that is behind and under my live rock, through a
micron filter and back to the pump.

They generate almost no heat.

I have heard that they don't deal well with back pressure. Thus,
they may not be good for a protein skimmer, which is what you want
to use the quiet one for, right?


---
Brian

****************************************************************************

~Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 11:10:18 -0700
~From: DAVIS PATRICK W <davisp-at-Colorado.EDU>
To: pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu
~Subject: Re: [Q] QUIET ONE PUMPS: OPINIONS WANTED

My experiences are with a Quiet One, LG 2 MDQ-SC and Iwaki (I forgot the 
name, but the ~400gph pressure pump). In setting up my 70 gallon reef, I 
wanted to use a check valve in the return, and a spray bar across the 
bottom. In other words, a lot of back pressure. 

I had a Quiet One and the LG to play with. The Quiet One was having a 
difficult time with the back pressure, and would move even less water 
than the LG. My thoughts were that it was probably being over stressed, 
and if not eventually wear out, would put a lot of heat into the tank. 
The LG was too loud for my living room. For me, it was louder than my 
Amiracle over-the-back overflow box (lots of gurgling and water cascading).

I ended up with the Iwaki (Japanese- I'm not exactly sure how it compares 
with the American). Very quiet- definately less quiet than the water 
dripping in my sump.

pat 

****************************************************************************

~Date: Thu, 8 Dec 1994 09:54:22 -0700 (MST)
~From: DAVIS PATRICK W <davisp-at-Colorado.EDU>
To: Jeff Pfohl <pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu>
~Subject: Re: [Q] QUIET ONE PUMPS: OPINIONS WANTED


On Wed, 7 Dec 1994, Jeff Pfohl wrote:

> 
> THANKS for the reply! I need a clarification on your wording if you
> don't mind. When you say less quiet that technically means it is
> louder than the water dripping. Is the Iwaki louder or quieter than
> the water dripping?
> 
> THANKS!

The Iwaki is less quiet than the water dripping, and I don't even have it 
bolted to the stand. I only know it is on (in terms of noise) when I open
the doors of the stand and get close to it. The LG I could hear very 
clearly.

pat


****************************************************************************


~From: chapman-at-silicon.den.mmc.com (CHRIS S CHAPMAN)
~Subject: Re: [Q] QUIET ONE PUMPS: OPINIONS WANTED
~Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 19:32:40 GMT

I use a quiet one as my main supply pump for a 180g tank. I have only
had it for 3 mo now, so I cannot respond on reliability. I does seem to
be very powerful as my return lines from the wet dry are about 2'
linear and 4' vertical and I get enough current in the tank that I
could use to trim down with ball valves. One thing I have noticed
though is that is does increase water temp since there is no external
fan or cooling fins and I have been told that the heat will increase
with the greater back pressure- which makes sense. Operationally it is
very quiet! Hopes this helps.
 

chapman-at-silicon.den.mmc.com
********************************************************************** 

~From: rjh0527-at-mcdata.com (Rich Holloway)
~Subject: Re: [Q] QUIET ONE PUMPS: OPINIONS WANTED


Brian (malloy-at-cs.clemson.edu) wrote:
: I am currently using 2 Quiet One pumps. They are absolutely noiseless
: and no vibrations at all. One of the Quiet ones is not even bolted
: to the floor; I mean, why bother. It doesn't move a bit. However,
: these 2 pumps only move water. One moves water from my sump to the top 
: my tank and the other moves water from one side of the tank, through
: a spray bar affair that is behind and under my live rock, through a
: micron filter and back to the pump.

: They generate almost no heat.

: I have heard that they don't deal well with back pressure. Thus,
: they may not be good for a protein skimmer, which is what you want
: to use the quiet one for, right?


I have heard from a friend that the Quiet One will handle some backpressure
but not what would be required from a venturi skimmer. I just bought a Quiet
One to run my wet/dry and the store recommended the Little Giant MDQ-SC
for the venturi skimmer. The store did say that the Quiet One will heat up the
water if back pressured.

Rich Holloway
rich-at-mcdata.com


****************************************************************************

~From: johnb-at-sun.com (John Baez)
~Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
~Subject: Re: [Q] QUIET ONE PUMPS: OPINIONS WANTED
~Date: 7 Dec 1994 19:39:49 GMT

In article 65l-at-mailer.fsu.edu, pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu (JEFF
PFOHL) writes: > Sounds good to me but I'd like to collect a few more
opinions before > making a decision. Any comments on the noise level
of the LG4 or the > performance of the Quiet One will be GREATLY
appreciated!!!

I have a bunch of quiet one pumps powering my tanks. Some have been running non stop for the last 4 years without any problems. As far as noise goes you can't here them at all. They are sealed and maintenance free. I openned one up one time because there was some gravel caught in the impeller. I cleaned it, closed it up and its been pumping water just fine. Each pump is rated at 85 watts (I forgot the amp rating).

As far as water flow goes I haven't measured it. I have 2 pumps circulating the water of my 150g tank. That same tank has a third quiet one which powers 2 venturi driven, DIY 3 pass 24" skimmers (equivalent to about a 72" columnar skimmer in water contact time).

I think they are great. They're cheaper than the LG4, take up about half the space and are more tolerant of a little bit of water splashing on them. The GPH is probably a little less.

Hope this helps.

John

****************************************************************************


~From: otte-at-cats.ucsc.edu (Ric Otte)
~Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria
~Subject: Re: [Q] QUIET ONE PUMPS: OPINIONS WANTED
~Date: 7 Dec 1994 22:26:14 GMT


> (JEFF PFOHL) writes:
>on paper the LG4 is better at 10.5 psi and 24 ft head ..."

>making a decision. Any comments on the noise level of the LG4 or the
>performance of the Quiet One will be GREATLY appreciated!!!

I had a LG4 and it was so noisy I replaced it with a Quiet One.  I found
the Quiet one to be very quiet, and I liked ita lot.  I had one break
down, but in a couple of weeks the factory replaced it (on warranty).
I made the mistake of putting some ferns in my tank,and it continually
clogged up the Quiet One until I got rid of them.  Since my house is
cold, I liked the fact that it added some heat to the system.

My only complaint was that it did not have much ability to push water
through a canister filter; the flow dropped off radically after going
through a filter.  Thus I ended up with a Hydrothruster Q2, which was
much better at pushing the water through the filter.

Ric Otte

****************************************************************************

~From: tse-at-ohm.nrl.navy.mil (Anthony Tse)
~Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria
~Subject: Re: [Q] QUIET ONE PUMPS: OPINIONS WANTED
~Date: 7 Dec 1994 23:52:31 GMT


    I don't think the Quiet One is in the same league as the LG4, but man
oh man, those LGs are NOISY.  I had a brief experience with the
new "quiet" version of LG2, and if that's quiet, I can't imagine what
the older ones sound like.  I would like to know how quiet are the
Iwaki40 relative to the LGs and Quiet One.  If they are as noisy as
the LGs, I am not building the big venturi skimmer.

-Anthony

****************************************************************************

~From: ronf-at-phx.sectel.mot.com (Ron Feigen)
~Subject: Re: [Q] QUIET ONE PUMPS: OPINIONS WANTED


Brian,

You quiet ones generate lots of heat you just don't know it 
because it all goes into your water.  They are not manetically coupled
so instead of the motor getting hot and heat disapting into the atmosphere
the water cools the impellor shaft.  The motor is cool because the heat
is dissipated into your tank.

Ron
 
In article 3v9-at-hubcap.clemson.edu, malloy-at-cs.clemson.edu (Brian) writes:

>>
>I am currently using 2 Quiet One pumps. They are absolutely noiseless
>and no vibrations at all. One of the Quiet ones is not even bolted
>to the floor; I mean, why bother. It doesn't move a bit. However,
>these 2 pumps only move water. One moves water from my sump to the top 
>my tank and the other moves water from one side of the tank, through
>a spray bar affair that is behind and under my live rock, through a
>micron filter and back to the pump.
>
>They generate almost no heat.
>

****************************************************************************

To: pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu (JEFF PFOHL)
~From: bryan.lukoni-at-mindlink.bc.ca (Bryan Lukoni)
~Subject: Re: TELL ME ABOUT YOUR WATER PUMP
~Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 10:11:24 +1000


Quiet one pump

Pros
-extremely quiet
-no vibration
-pumps a lot of water  (around 700 GPH at 4' head)
-small and compact
-cheap

Con
-adds heat ( depending on how tight the motor is, at least 3 or 4 degrees)
- output drops off considerably when used in a application that puts back 
 pressure on the pump.


-=Bryan=-

****************************************************************************

~Date: Thu, 8 Dec 94 08:08:40 -0600
~From: jay_weissler-at-il.us.swissbank.com (Jay Weissler)
To: pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu (JEFF PFOHL)
~Subject: Re: TELL ME ABOUT YOUR WATER PUMP

Jeff,
I would like to see you mention the Magnum 350 as an aquarium pump.  
Specifically. I tried it in conjunction with a sump and it just  
didn't work. It seems to need the force of water siphoning from above  
to push any flow back.

Also, my iwaki rlt 20. cheap at $123 shipped to my home. Pumps hard  
(I'm controlling flow with a ball valve), but LOUD AS HELL, even  
without the back pressure.

BTW, do you know of any good sources for rock or reef critters in the  
Tampa Bay or Sarosota area? I'll be visiting in Jan and might make a  
purchase and save on shipping costs.

Thanks
jayw


****************************************************************************

>From otte-at-cats.ucsc.edu Thu Dec  8 13:33:44 1994
~Date: Thu, 8 Dec 1994 08:38:07 -0800
To: pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu
~Subject: Re: TELL ME ABOUT YOUR WATER PUMP

Hi,
I originally wrote a post about the quiet one, but would like to add the
following about the Hydrothruster Q2.

The Hydrothruster Q2 works really well for me.  It seems to put out about
10PSI as far as I can tell, through two outlets (with two inlets).  I run
each outlet through an Ocean Clear cannister and then a biological filter,
and have lots of flow rate (4 filters all together).  It has much more
output than a Quiet One,but is not quite as quiet; I am still thinking of
ways to insulate this one to make it less noisy.  It is not anywhere near
as noisy as the Little Giant pumps, even their falsely named quiet models.
The power consumption on this pump is more than the Quiet One (1.2 amps vs.
something like .75 amps), but the output is MUCH more.  I had originally
considered using 2 Quiet one pumps instead of the Hydrothruster, but
decided on the Hydrothruster for what are not probably real convincing
reasons (mostly my Quiet one got clogged up a lot, and I wasn't convinced
it would put out half as much as the Hydrothruster Q2).  The main advantage
of the Hydrothruster seems to be when pushing water through filters; it
doesn't seem to slow down at all, whereas the Quiet One slowed down A LOT.
Unfortunately, the Hydrothruster doesn't add any heat to the water (I live
in a cold house), and I always liked the free heat the Quiet One added.
The only place I know you can get a Hydrothruster pump is through a place
called Superior Aquatic Technology at 1-800-477-8515, but there must be
other places.

Thanks for doing a FAQ on pumps--it will be helpful.
Ric Otte

****************************************************************************


~Date: Thu, 8 Dec 1994 10:57:50 -0800
To: pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu
~From: otte-at-cats.ucsc.edu (Ric Otte)
~Subject: Re: TELL ME ABOUT YOUR WATER PUMP

Jeff,
I just looked at the literature that came with my [Hydrothuster] pump.  It says it puts out 9.5 psi in each end, which seems consistent with what I experience.
It also says it will lift water 'approximately 21 feet straight up',
which I think is much higher than a pump like the Quiet One.  I bought it
because it was supposed to be a pressure pump; in fact, if you run it
with low pressure (less than 1 foot lift) you are supposed to add
pressure by restricting the ports, according to the manual.  THey also
give a bunch of PR saying it is designed to run better with high pressure,
etc.  I have no idea if that is correct or simply nonsense.
It would be really easy just to have both ends to into a T that would give
you much higher output(1050 gallons per hour according to the manual).
They say they sell all sorts of adaptor kits: combining both heads to 
single output, taking both intake ports together to get a single intake
port, and I think a way to hook 2 or 3 of them together to get a huge
output, or something like that.  But It would be quite easy to do this
with just parts from the hardware store (the source for allmy aquarium
plumbing supplies!)

I can't comment on reliability yet, but it looks rather reliable.  My 
Quiet One had started to make a really loud squeeling noise, something
was wrong with the bearings.  They fixed it, but it took a couple of
weeks.  I still have it for backup in case something goes wrong with
this pump.

I look forward to the completed survey,

Ric Otte

****************************************************************************

~Date: 08 Dec 94 13:49:00 EST
~From: Perry Tishgart/Champion <71201.2031-at-compuserve.com>
To: Jeff Pfohl <pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu>
~Subject: Re: price quote wanted

Jeff,
We do not carry either the Quiet One or the Eheim.
The Iwaki is 165.00 and the Little Giant 4q is 115.00
Both the Iwaki and the LG are magnetic drive pumps, while the Quiet one  is a
direct drive.
Magnetic drives isolate the heat transfer from the water, while direct drives
transfer all the heat.
The Quiet one is a notoriously short lived pump, while the Eheim has a good
reputation for duability.
If you would like our complete catalog,please leave your address.
Thanks for your interest.

Perry

****************************************************************************


~From: ronf-at-phx.sectel.mot.com (Ron Feigen)
~Subject: Re: [Q] QUIET ONE PUMPS: OPINIONS WANTED


Very noisey?  No I don't think so, an MD5 maybe, but I have never seen one
running so I can't say.  LG has a Q series for aquariums, I am not 
sure if they are quiter or cooler than the non-Q models.  They do cost a few
$$$ more. LG only makes Q pumps up to a model 4 and 4X (circulation).
Most folks have LG pumps and I don't hear any complaints.  You can always
get an Ehiem but you are talking ~$120 for something smaller than an MD2.
Of course can be plumbed or submesered so it may be easier to use.  Even still
I would go with a larger pump (MD2 or bigger) depending on the skimmer.

Iwaki is supposedly the "cadillac" of pumps.  Ask Champion about the
differences they sell both.

Ron

****************************************************************************

~From: ronf-at-phx.sectel.mot.com (Ron Feigen)
~Subject: Re: [Q] QUIET ONE PUMPS: OPINIONS WANTED

I have owned several Iwaki pumps.  30s to 55s, which equate to a ~LG4
to ~LG6 (if it exisited).  They are very quiet and don't pull much
power.  They are also expensive.  If you get an Iwaki you need to
speficy the Japanese model.  There is a difference.  The Iwaki spec.
for US made pumps is not the same as the Japanese spec., The imports
use roller bearing, domestic use bushing.

BTW I have heard the Q series LG and didn't find it loud.  Are you
sure it was a Q series LG pump you had?

Ron 

In article tse-at-ohm.nrl.navy.mil (Anthony Tse) writes:
>
>    I don't think the Quiet One is in the same league as the LG4, but man
>oh man, those LGs are NOISY.  I had a brief experience with the
>new "quiet" version of LG2, and if that's quiet, I can't imagine what
>the older ones sound like.  I would like to know how quiet are the
>Iwaki40 relative to the LGs and Quiet One.  If they are as noisy as
>the LGs, I am not building the big venturi skimmer.
>
>-Anthony



****************************************************************************

~Date: Thu, 8 Dec 1994 22:41:13 -0800 (PST)
~From: Daniel T Benveniste <dbenveni-at-tuba.aix.calpoly.edu>
~Subject: Re: TELL ME ABOUT YOUR WATER PUMP 
To: JEFF PFOHL <pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu>

About the Quiet One- Distributed by Rainbow plasics in the LA area. We 
had lots of problems with them over heating and leaking (about 5). The 
Quiet One is air cool not water cooled, that what makes it quiet but that 
also makes them more likely to leak. I heard they mighy of improved them 
slightly but I stopped using them. And no, they are not submersible.
	About the Little Giants (or their counter parts- March). Are load 
but very reliable. They have many different heads for different 
situations (such as more head pressure or more flow). They do heat the 
water up depending on size of pump.

The best pumps I feel are the the Eheim water pump. Their like power 
heads but much larger and made with Eheim quality. 

*********************************************************************

>From pls20-at-eng.amdahl.com Fri Dec  9 14:16:13 1994
~Date: Fri, 9 Dec 94 06:21:58 PST
~From: pls20-at-eng.amdahl.com (Phil Sanders )
To: pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu (JEFF PFOHL)
~Subject: Re: TELL ME ABOUT YOUR WATER PUMP

I have been running a Quiet One pump for about 6 months and have been 
plesantly surprised. It's extremely quiet (my primary concern), and pumps 
a good amount of gph. The down side is that it does get pretty hot and adds 
some heat to the water. Since I have a 100 gal, this is not much of a 
concern.
 
Phil 
   
(p.s. It was also pretty cheap. I got one mail order for less than $70) 
-- 
     
****************************************************************************
                                                            
~Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 10:05:42 -0700 (MST)
~From: DAVIS PATRICK W <davisp-at-Colorado.EDU>
To: pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu
~Subject: pump noises


I commend you for putting together the list for this subject, I could 
have used it when I set up my tank.

I am not sure how you can standardize it though, for some people one pump 
is noisy, while for others it is not.

Besides my Iwaki 20RLT, Quiet One, and LG 2MD-SCQ (?)- the little one- I 
also had an American Iwaki 40RLT for a couple of days. To me it sounded 
like a small vacuum cleaner; it was louder than the volume that I keep my 
tv at. With both being in the same room there was just too much noise. 
Other people say it is extremely quiet. I guess it could be considered 
relatively quiet considering it is moving about 750gph.

FWIW-
pat


****************************************************************************

>From pulanch-at-bioch.tamu.edu Fri Dec  9 17:05:48 1994
To: pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu (JEFF PFOHL)
~Subject: Re: TELL ME ABOUT YOUR WATER PUMP
~Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 16:03:39


I have a Little Giant MQX-SC 2 (I think the letters are in that order), I use 
it as a return from my sump (5.5 ft head), no noise (unless you put your 
head in my stand, but the dripping water is louder still), the pump is 
extremely hot, it worried me when I first started using it but the water 
stays at 78 degrees, even here in Texas with no chiller!, 

>water to any degree, any problems, whether you would buy another one,

I have had no problems, I would recommend anyone looking for a medium volume 
pump to get one (of my same size), I will definetely buy another one 
when I start my reef tank (five years?).  Good luck with the survey!

Paul "Goose" Ulanch

Dept. Biochem/Biophys
Texas A&M University
College Station, TX   77843-2128
(409) 847-9379
PULANCH-at-bioch.tamu.edu

****************************************************************************

~From: Todd Wiersema <wiersema-at-ppd201.jsc.nasa.gov>
~Date: Fri, 09 Dec 94 18:02:19 -2400
To: pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu


Jeff,

I am including my previous post and a responce I recieved. There were
a few others. One guys Quiet One stopped working after 7 months.

I ordered a quiet one with the problems described below.  In addition
the pump ran hot. (parts of the casing were to hot to touch for more
than a second). It would even overheat to the point that it would stop
until it cooled down and turn itself back on in about 20 minutes. I
ordered a second one so I could return the first.  After about a week
the first pump cooled down.  Apparently there was some kind of
break-in period.

When I received the second pump switched them out and returned the
first pump.  The second pump had about the same low (only 60%
advertised) flow rate and also ran hot, but not hot enough to overheat
and shut down.  It was broken in after about 3 days instead of 7 days
and cooled down and continues to run fine (5 months).

I talked with an engineer friend that knows a little about pumps and said 
usually one of three things causes a pump to fail.

seals go bad - pump leaks
bearings go bad - pump leaks and becomes noisy and eventually seizes
brushes wear out - electric motor stops running

He said in a quality pump these parts can often be ordered and
replaced for under $20.  He reccommended getting a good pump that can
be rebuilt and a cheap one for backup to keep the tank running while
ordering and replacing parts every few years.

Hope this helps,

Todd Wiersema

wiersema-at-ppd201.jsc.nasa.gov

*****

I didn't seem to find anything in the FAQ so here goes. Had anyone had
any bad experiences with QuietOne pumps for wet/dry filter systems? My
new one seems to perform about half the advertised flow rate and
overheats often.

It sounds like pretty good deal in flow/$. 1050 gph-at-0 head, 600 gph-at-5ft 
head. 
Sale price $80. 

I tested it right out of the box. it only flowed 600 gph-at-~5 inches
head.  I set it on the kitchen counter and put 2 short sections of
3/4" hose on it. I took 5-6 seconds to fill a gallon jug. by my rough
test ,6 sec/gal = 1 gal/6 sec = 10 gal/min = 600gal/hr.  This is
slightly over half of the advertised flow rate. On the bright side, it
is very, very, very quiet, virtually inaudible.

I also noticed it seems to run hot.  If you place your hand on the 
housing you must let go within 2 seconds to avoid burning your skin. 

I went ahead and installed it anyway and seem to get about 350
gal/hour flow through my 75 gal tank at ~4ft head.  This would be
adequate except the pump keeps overheating and shutting itself off for
about 20 minutes to cool down about once each hour.

I may have just gotten a bad one.  The mail order company is sending
me another one to test so I am not bad mouthing them yet.  I just
wondered if this is a common problem or what?  I would appreciate any
information about this QuietOne pump or others.

The only reason I got a 1000gph pump is that it was not much more
expensive and it will leave room to upgrade or add tanks later.  I was
told I could use a ball valve to slow the flow down if necessary.  One
would think this might be hard on the pump.  Has anyone had any
problems with this?

Thanks in advance,

Todd Wiersema

wiersema-at-ppd.jsc.nasa.gov



****************************************************************************

1994 Status: 
~Subject: Re: Pump Problems? QuietOne for wet/dry
From:kinneyw-at-ptag2.pt.cyanamid.com (Bill Kinney)
~Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994
14:14:16 GMT

In article <311li1$3u6-at-pendragon.jsc.nasa.gov>, Todd Wiersema
<wiersema-at-ppd.jsc.nasa.gov> writes:

 > > > I didn't seem to find anything in the FAQ so here goes. Had
anyone had > any bad experiences with QuietOne pumps for wet/dry
filter systems?  My > new one seems to perform about half the
advertised flow rate and > overheats often. > It sounds like pretty
good deal in flow/$. 1050 gph-at-0 head, 600 gph-at-5ft > head. Sale price
$80.  > > I tested it right out of the box.  it only flowed 600 gph-at-~5
inches head.  > I set it on the kitchen counter and put 2 short
sections of 3/4" hose on > it. I took 5-6 seconds to fill a gallon
jug. by my rough test ,6 sec/gal > = 1 gal/6 sec = 10 gal/min =
600gal/hr.  This is slightly over half of > the advertised flow rate.
On the bright side, it is very, very, very > quiet, virtually
inaudible.

How was the suction side of the pump configured?  Did the pump have to 
pull 
water UP into its intake?  This is a common problem when people setup 
this type of pump in aqarium settings.  Most centrifigal pumps must be 
run 
with what is refered to as "positive suction head" which is to say that 
there 
should be a minimum of fittings before the pump, and that with the water 
flowing there should still be positive pressure at the inlet.  

> 
> I also noticed it seems to run hot.  If you place your hand on the
> housing you must let go within 2 seconds to avoid burning your skin. 

This is not normal for this pump.

> 
> I went ahead and installed it anyway and seem to get about 350 gal/hour
> flow through my 75 gal tank at ~4ft head.  This would be adequate 
except
> the pump keeps overheating and shutting itself off for about 20 minutes
> to cool down about once each hour. 
> 
> I may have just gotten a bad one.  The mail order company is sending me
> another one to test so I am not bad mouthing them yet.  I just wondered
> if this is a common problem or what?  I would appreciate any 
information
> about this QuietOne pump or others. 
> 

I've used a QuietOne on my 90 gal Berlin style reef tank for about 2 
years
without a hitch. Flow through about 10 ft of head is 500 gal/hr. 

Maybe you have a lemon, but first see the comments above about the 
suction 
piping.

> The only reason I got a 1000gph pump is that it was not much more
> expensive and it will leave room to upgrade or add tanks later.  I was
> told I could use a ball valve to slow the flow down if necessary.  One
> would think this might be hard on the pump.  Has anyone had any 
problems
> with this?
> 

As long as a minimum flow for cooling is maintained, throttling this type 
of 
pump is not a problem.  In fact the motor works LESS with lower flows, 
not 
more.  

****************************************************************************


~From: allan-at-hbinc.com
~Subject: Re: [Q] QUIET ONE PUMPS: OPINIONS WANTED
~Date: Fri, 09 Dec 94 14:38:52 PDT

I seen quite one used on skimmer that are about 4 feet tall. They have a max 
psi of 6.5 and head of 14 feet. 


****************************************************************************

>From pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu Fri Dec  9 20:03:44 1994
~Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 20:03:30 -0500
~Subject: my water pump

Since this has turned into an all out pump information exchange I
should probably include my experiences also. I have a distinct
preference for Eheims and have never owned another type of pump. I
have an Eheim 1250 that acts as my water return to my tank. It is 5+
years old and I have never had a problem with it. I keep it submerged
in my sump and do not notice any increase in temp. It is extremely
quiet and cannot be heard in my very quiet office. It pumps about 200
gph up 5'. 

I also own an Eheim 1060 that is less than 6 months old. It is outside
the sump and powers my Top Fathom 400 venturi skimmer. It is also very
quiet (I cannot hear it late at night when everyone is gone and I'm
listening for it less than 4' away) and does not seem to heat the
water to any extent although I'm sure it would if it were submerged
since it feels warm to the touch.  It manages to work quite well with
the venturi application but I am considering a more powerful pump so I
can get even more out of my skimmer. (never satisfied until I've
exceeded the limits of the skimmer and form a pool of water on my
floor. Then sell that pump and buy the next smallest size that won't
overflow the skimmer. ;) )

In general Eheims are very reliable quiet pumps. They are more for
circulation than for pressure applications but the 1060 can function
as a pressure pump and do the job. (Probably not as well as an Iwaki or
LG but they are quieter from what I've been told.)


****************************************************************************

~From: sanford1-at-ix.netcom.com (gary sanford)
~Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria
~Subject: Re: TELL ME ABOUT YOUR WATER PUMP
~Date: 10 Dec 1994 18:21:53 GMT


I am using a little giant 3MD-SC. I use  it to pump through 2 sear's
whole house water filters in series.
These have custom DIY inserts,one foam,one ammo-carb.
This works fine and moves a lot of water,though it is fairly loud,freezer like.
i am also going to set up a reef tank and any info on alternative pumps for
running a sea-tek venturi skimmer would be greatly appreciated.
Iwaki,LG,aquatronics,etc.
Thanks in advance!

********************************************************************

~From: Bryan_Lukoni-at-mindlink.bc.ca (Bryan Lukoni)
~Newsgroups: sci.aquaria
~Subject: Re: quiet pumps, etc.
~Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 10:25:48 tzn

In article <kivsHpi00iVDQ=CXca-at-andrew.cmu.edu>, sf2s+-at-andrew.cmu.edu says...
>
>I am curious what the quietest pump is.  I have a 70 gallon reef system,
>with a 10 gallon sump.  I'd like about a 600 gallon per hour pump (at 4
>ft of head).  What is the quiestest brand on the market-- Iwaki?,
>Rainbow/Lifeguard?, Hydrothruster?, Little Giant?, etc.

The Rainbow Lifequard Quiet One is probably the quietest pump on the
market.  It can pump around 500-600 gallons at 4' of head.  There was
a post on this net regarding this pump last week.  It received a lot of 
responses.

-=Bryan=-

>Shane Frederick.

****************************************************************************

~From: Wilson Angerson <gqva06-at-udcf.gla.ac.uk>
~Subject: Re: TELL ME ABOUT YOUR WATER PUMP
To: pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu (Jeff Pfohl)
~Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 15:40:39 +0000 (GMT)

Jeff,

Here's some stuff on Minijets. I did it review style but you can
summarise the data any way you like. Hope it's of some use.


Minijet pumps are powerhead technology (magnetically-driven impeller)
in unconventional packaging. Externally they are a small, nearly
rectangular box (WxHxD 58x57x36mm, 2.3x2.2x1.4") with the 1/2" outlet
hose connection and the power cord exiting in parallel at the top.
Water enters via a strainer at the bottom and side, and they need to be 
submerged to a depth of at least 3cm/1.2".

They're not designed to deal with a lot of back pressure and would not
be suitable for returning water from a conventional sump below the tank.
However, their size and shape make them a good choice for use in a small
in-tank or beside-tank sump. I use an MN300 to pump water from the sump
beside my 8 gal "bookshelf" reef and another for in-tank circulation.
These have been running continuously for nearly a year without problems,
and I ran an MN600 for about 8 months until it became redundant when I
redesigned my filter. I can confirm that both these models meet their
advertised specs, which are as follows:

Model    Volts    Watts    Max.Output      Max.Head
                           l/h (USgal/h)   cm (in.)
MN75     120      3        75 (20)         20 (8)
         240      3        75 (20)         20 (8)
MN150    120      3        150 (40)        30 (12)
         240      3.4      150 (40)        40 (16)
MN300    120      4        300 (80)        60 (24)
         240      4.2      300 (80)        70 (28)
MN600    120      6.5      600 (160)       120 (47)
         240      5.3      600 (160)       100 (39)

Output falls off roughly linearly with pressure to zero at the maximum
head. Any constriction of the outflow tubing will increase back pressure
and reduce output. That goes for any pump or powerhead using similar
technology. Even a simple hose connector can have a detectable effect,
and this needs to be born in mind when planning your plumbing. 

Wilson


****************************************************************************


~From: allan-at-hbinc.com
~Newsgroups: sci.aquaria,rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria
~Subject: Re: [M][Q] HOW LOUD IS THE LG4 MDQ-SC
~Date: Mon, 19 Dec 94 15:31:27 PDT

Loud as a 12" summer fan.

****************************************************************************

~Date: Thu, 22 Dec 94 09:13:20 PST
~From: macafee-at-vertex.com (David MacAfee)
To: PFOHL-at-NUCMAR.PHYSICS.FSU.EDU
~Subject: Water Pumps
Hi Jeff,
I have used Little giant 4MD SC pumps they are an old model not
the "new Quarium" series. They wore out after about 8 years.
They got very hot. They use 189 Watts. I'm not sure how much heat
was transferred to the water. Most of the time the heat would have
been a good thing.  They were very noisy. Kind of like a small jet.
However the noise was kind of high pitched and didn't go through the
walls from my garage into my house. The flow was about what they were
rated for. The input and output fittings were way too small (1/2")
for their rated flow (15gpm). This led me to plumb 1/2" pipe
12.5 feet to and from the tank. The pressure drop in the pipes
was so much that the pump was always pumping against it's maximum
head capability. The tank always had particles floating in it
making it look dirty.

When these pumps wore out I re-plumbed the whole system with 2"
pipes to and from the tank. I wanted less than 1psi drop in the
pipes so I could get 20 to 25gpm through the filters. This time
I chose an Iwaki 100RLT. It also gets very hot. It uses 380 Watts
It is designed not to transfer the heat to the water. I don't know if
it does.  The high frequency noise is much less but the low frequency
noise (~120Hz) is driving my wife crazy. It goes through walls and
floors to our bedroom which is right above the tank. Iwaki has a
reputation for quiet pumps. I don't know if I got a bad one or if I
haven"t installed it right. Champion had an ad in FAMA with flow vs.
head for all of Iwaki's pumps. Their price was within $2 of TFP
so I bought it from them. My Christmas vacation project is to see
if I can quiet down the pump.

One of the most important things to consider when putting together
a system is the pressure lost in the pipes including each elbow and tee.
pulmbing supply stores have books (often free) that have tables
for pressure loss per 100 ft at different flow rates for each
available pipe size as well as equivalent distance for elbows.
Regards,
Dave MacAfee


****************************************************************************

                               - - Mail - - 
         December 30, 1994     7:44am    
   FROM: Rich Holloway                   
     TO: Jeff Pfohl                      
SUBJECT: Pumps and Skimmers              

Hi Jeff,

I really appreciated your posting of the pump.faq. I recently bought a 
"BERLIN" venturi skimmer from Red Sea and was looking for a pump to power it. 
The Quiet One pump I bought will not drive the skimmer with enough pressure so
I'll save it for my new wet/dry when I build it. I ordered the Little Giant 
3MDQ pressure pump even though I know it will be noisier. I can always put the
pump on the other side of the wall in the furnace room if I have to.

Thanks,

Rich Holloway
rich-at-mcdata.com

******************************************************************

~From: rferrara-at-jpmorgan.com (Robert Ferrara,STARSEQ)
~Subject: [Q][M] Emporer Aquatics protein skimmer
~Date: 4 Jan 1995 14:08:13 GMT

I recently set up an Emporer Aquatics skimmer series 6-1.
I can't seem to get get any good sludge from it.  I'm not
sure if my water level is right.  I can get it to produce
watery output, but when I lower the water level in the skimmer
just a little, I don't get anything.  I'm using a Little Giant
Quarium Series 2MDQ-SC water pump.  The skimmer says to get a pump 
that pumps between 300-500 gph at 4 ft. head.  This pump is rated 
at 465 gph at 3 ft.
I thought this would be good enough.  Also, this pump
sounds like a helicoptor getting ready for take-off.  It
is extremely LOUD!  Oh yeah, the venturi input for the
skimmer is 1/4".  Is this large enough?


Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Bob Ferrara

****************************************************************************

~From: burke-at-cis.ohio-state.edu (jonathan l burke)
~Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
~Subject: Re: Iwaki pump questions...
~Date: 7 Jan 1995 04:12:50 -0500

In article <1995Jan7.020608-at-opal.tufts.edu> etsang-at-opal.tufts.edu writes:
>In article <3ek4o6$ja8-at-archive.ny.jpmorgan.com>, rferrara-at-jpmorgan.com (Robert Ferrara,STARSEQ) writes:
>> I heard that about the Japanese motors, but only the largest
>> sized pumps come with Japanese motors.  Is it possible to get
>> the smaller pumps with a Japanese motor?
>>  
>> Bob Ferrara 
>>
>In what way is the Japanese model better than the U.S. counterpart?  In terms
>of noise, durability, heat production or plain psychological reasons??

The Japanese models have a different motor... they both have the same Japanese
impellers.  the Japanese motors have a considerably longer expected lifespan.
I've used many of every brand and type... the Walchem (W in the WMD) will
usually provide a longer life than a Little Giant.  It seems then again, that
the Japanese motors will outlast the Walchem motors about 2 times.

( this is considering you don't spill salt water one them).
the Japanese motors are only about $10 or $20 more on a $150 pump.

Jonathan Burke - Quantum Aquatics

******************************************************************

~From: pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu (JEFF PFOHL)
~Date: 8 Jan 1995 04:14:40 GMT
~Subject: raw data: TFP catalog

Some data obtained from the That Fish Place (TFP) 1994-1995 Catalog
pp. 134-135:

E = Eheim
I = Iwaki
LG = Little Giant


pump		flow rate 	max head	power consumption 
		(0 ft head)				
         	(gph/lph)	(ft/m)		 (watts)


E1046		79/300			4/1.2		5
E1048		158/600			5/1.5		10
E1250		317/1200		6.5/2		28
E1060   	600/2280		10/3.1		60

I20RLT  	480/			14/		52
I30RLT  	570/			17/		115
I40RLT  	810/			21/		219
I55RLT		1140/			26/		230
I70RLT  	1590/			31/		334
I100RLT 	2100/			39/		380

I20RLXT 	840/			8/		46
I30RLXT 	1200/			13/		115
I40RLXT 	1380/			15/		219

QUIET ONE       1040/			N/A		85

               AT 1 FT HEAD
LG2MDQSC        560/			14/		131
LG3MDQSC	725/			18/		110
LG4MDQSC   	875/			24/		150

LG2MDQXSC	815/			8/		131
LG3MDQXSC	1150/			14/		110
LG4MDQXSC	1380/			17/		150

************************************************************

~From: rferrara-at-jpmorgan.com (Robert Ferrara,STARSEQ)
~Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
~Subject: Re: Iwaki pump questions...
~Date: 9 Jan 1995 20:10:30 GMT

As I stated before, my new LG Quarium series can be heard
>from at least one room away!

Bob Ferrara

****************************************************************************

~From: pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu (JEFF PFOHL)
~Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria
~Subject: PUMP NOISE (again) LG vs. IWAKI
~Date: 18 Jan 1995 22:06:47 GMT

--
After re-reading the pump faq again (and again...) I have narrowed
down my choice for a new pump. My quesion is of these 2 pumps: the
Little Giant 4 MDQ-SC and the Iwaki 40 RLT which one would you put
next to YOUR BED? Or would you not put either one there? 


I'm putting a new pump (either one of the above or another Eheim 1060
which I KNOW is quiet) in my office 2' from my desk so it needs to be
quiet. (or my office mate will have a stroke; you should have seen his
eyes when he came in and saw a 75 gal tank there :) )

THANKS!!!



				JEFF PFOHL
				E-MAIL: PFOHL-at-NUCMAR.PHYSICS.FSU.EDU
				PHONE : (904) 644-1598  work
					(904) 224-0707  home
					(904) 644-9848  fax



****************************************************************************


>From pls20-at-eng.amdahl.com Thu Jan 19 17:27:33 1995
~Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 09:55:59 PST
~From: pls20-at-eng.amdahl.com (Phil Sanders )
To: pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu (JEFF PFOHL)
~Subject: Re: PUMP NOISE (again) LG vs. IWAKI

Jeff-
  
    I've heard both the Little Giant and the Iwaki (Japanese model) and the 
Iwaki is much quieter.
  
But, the only pump I'd put next my bed is a Quiet One. 
  
Phil

*****************************************************************************

~From: rwarmat-at-eng.clemson.edu (richard warmath)
~Subject: Re: PUMP NOISE (again) LG vs. IWAKI
~Date: 31 Jan 1995 02:05:19 GMT

i own a LG 4MDQ-SC.  no complaints in 18 months.  sure it makes noise-it sounds like a litle fan running--which it has.  not a intrusive sound to me.  never had an iwaki
didn't seem worth more money.  friend has LG 2 something - no problems in a couple
years.  as for lifeguard--i don't get how that much extra flow can cost so much
less and come fram a smaller package.  a store owner told me he quit lifeguard
bc of customer complaints.  long tube okay, but will sacrafice performance. 
(skin friction from tubing)


***************************************************************************

~From: etsang-at-opal.tufts.edu
~Newsgroups: alt.aquaria
~Subject: Iwaki 40RLT vs the Quiet One...
~Date: 5 Feb 95 11:10:47 -0500


I have read so many posts about the noise levels of different water pumps and 
somehow had an impression that Iwaki pumps are quite noisy and the Quiet Ones
are the quietest.  

I finally had the chance the setup my system with 2 brand new pumps (Quite One
and the Iwaki 40RLT US model) running side by side.  I turned one off while
allowing the other to run to compare the noise levels they generate.

I am surprised to realize that the Iwaki is just a bit more noisy, very
acceptable indeed.  My sofa is right touching my tank and its stand and I
still find the noise 'no problem'.  However, to my surprise, my Supra 4 airpump
is making a moderate level of noise.  Isn't this airpump the quietest on the 
market?  Damn it, and its so expensive......

So, if you are looking for a VERY quiet water pump and don't find the Quiet One
suits you, get the IWAKI 40 RLT.  Remember someone posted about the Janpanese
model which is even quieter than the US model?  Get that one if its really the
case.

************************************************************************

~From: mlohmeye-at-diamond.amd.com (Michael Lohmeyer)
~Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
~Subject: Re: PUMP NOISE (again) LG vs. IWAKI
~Date: 8 Feb 1995 04:33:06 GMT

     This topic came up just as I was making my order for a Little Giant
4MDQ-SC pump.  Now that I have it set up and going, I thouhgt I would give
an example of how loud it is.

     I have it installed inside the cabinet under my tank.  With the doors
closed, the sound is about the same as the noise coming from my
refridgerator.  I would say my fridge is about average in noise level (if
that helps anyone).  Sometimes my fridge annoys me when it is on, and I feel
that the pump is a bit anoying too.  You get use to it and it seems like it
isn't there anymore, but if someone then turns it off, the silence is rather
nice.  

     BTW- I have the pump sitting on a towel to dampen the noise (so it does
not vibrate the cabinet).  Also, the walls on my cabinet are made of thin
(about 1/16 or 1/8 inch) wood over a very solid frame.  Thicker cabinet
walls will probably make a big difference.  

     I definatly plan to try other stategies to make things more quiet.
Especially since the other problem I have to deal with is that it is heating
up my tank.  I need to put venting in my totally enclosed cabinet.  This
probably includes adding a fan.  I play to use 12v fans on the pump as well
as the metal hallide light hood.  Between the two, things heat up pretty bad.
The fans, of course, will only add more noise unless I can find real quiet
ones (which actually isn't that hard these days).

     Considering the power of the pump, I guess it is reasonable that it
would be this noisy (which really isn't that much).  I just would prefer 
a little more quiet in my house.

     Oh.  The pump does include a fan in its contruction, but I plan to add
another fan at the center of the pump to try and cool it down more.  The 
built in fan doesn't seem to be cooling it enough to prevent the tank from 
warming up.  

Mike
-------------
Mike Lohmeyer
San Jose CA
(408) 749-2914
mlohmeye-at-diamond.amd.com

*************************************************************************

From pfohl-at-nucmar.physics.fsu.edu:

I recently bought an LG 4 MDQ-SC to power my Top Fathom 400 skimmer.
It is indeed a powerful pump. I have found it to be a little noisier
than the Eheim 1060 but then again my computer is noisier than the Eheim
1060. At first the pump was what I would consider noisy for an office
environment. It sounded like a small dorm refrigerator. I then placed
it on a sponge (2" thick) and that quieted it down some. I found that
the most important thing to get it quiet was to make sure it was
perfectly level!!! My moving it around on the sponge I found that I
could get it quiet enough that the noise level was that of the built
in cooling fan!! :) VERY nice!! (BTW the LG fan is quieter than my
hood cooling fan and probably at the same level of the water going
over my corner overflow box) I am thus convinced, after hearing it
and comparing it to my Eheim 1060 in the same application, that it is
a very quiet pump. I may not put one in my bedroom but I have no
problems having it in my office 4' from my desk and would gladly put
it in any room of my home without worrying about the noise.


				JEFF PFOHL
				E-MAIL: PFOHL-at-NUCMAR.PHYSICS.FSU.EDU
				PHONE : (904) 644-1598  work
					(904) 224-0707  home
					(904) 644-9848  fax


"I will shoulder more than my share of the task, whatever it may be.
100% and then some!" -The Army Ranger Creed

******************************************************************



				JEFF PFOHL
				E-MAIL: PFOHL-at-NUCMAR.PHYSICS.FSU.EDU
				PHONE : (904) 644-1598  work
					(904) 224-0707  home
					(904) 644-9848  fax


"I will shoulder more than my share of the task, whatever it may be.
100% and then some!" -The Army Ranger Creed




Rena C40

by clark/shannon.ee.wits.ac.za (Alan Clark)
Date: 23 Jan 92
Newsgroup: alt.aquaria

In <12856-at-vela.acs.oakland.edu> dlcogswe-at-vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell) writes:

>Anybody had any experiences, good or bad, with the Rena C40 pump? 
>How well does it work as a pump compared to the Hagen 802 powerhead?
>I've heard the 802 doesn't work so well, as it tends to generate heat
>and it really wasn't made to pump water up.  Any comments?

>-- 
>Dan Cogswell               dlcogswe-at-vela.acs.oakland.edu

I have a Rena C40 job in my fish pond outside.... (3.5 by 2.5 by 0.7 or 
so in a standard kidney shape) I have a "biological" filter of sorts (two
plastic pot plant containers, sand, cloth etc) on the intake of the pump
which is submersed. The pump output is fed by 12mm tube to the top of a 
0.7m high rockery/waterfall feature, complete with birdbath facilities.

For such a dinky little pump, I must confess to it working beyond all 
possible expectations! It maintains quite a decent flowrate (Unless its 
filter cleaning time :-) and doesn't seem to mind the effects of the rather 
harsh S.A sunshine - although it is advertised as being an "indoor only"
pump.

My R0.02

{End of Message}                                   ______________________
      ********     ***  Alan Robert Clark         / Electromagnetics Lab \
     *  **    *   *     Dept of Elec Eng,         |   Wits University    |
    *   **     * *      P.O.Wits                  |"Bugs are later known |
   ************  *      2050 South Africa         |    as Features"      |
  *     **  *    *      Fax (+ 27 11) 403 - 1929  | Ps 111:10;Ps 37/150  |
 *      **    *   *     Tel (+ 27 11) 716 - 5404  \______________________/
*       **      *  ***  Internet: clark-at-odie.ee.wits.ac.za


(M) Another pump question....

by enenkel/cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
Date: 24 Jan 92
Newsgroup: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria

( Jon Edwards ) writes:

>I'm about to order an Eheim hobby/sump pump.  I need to pump about 100gph [...]
>  If I put a valve to slightly restrict the output of the larger pump(160gph),
>will that create too much backpressure on it?  I don't want to kill a $60
>pump.....  (I'd use a powerhead, but I've heard of many people burning them
>out doing just the same thing).

The power required to drive a centrifugal pump decreases as you restrict 
the output.  Therefore you cannot burn out a centrifugal pump (such as the
Eheim hobby pumps) by restricting the output.  (Propeller pumps and positive
displacement pumps are a different story!)

Robert Enenkel


Hydrothruster experiences wanted

by "Jon Wilson" jwilson/knology.net (Updated)
Date: 13 Oct 1993
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria

In article 3C0-at-acsu.buffalo.edu, poulin-at-cs.buffalo.edu (Marc C Poulin) writes:
> Does anyone use the Hydrothruster Q or Hydrothruster 2Q pump made by
> filtronics.  From their literature (and pricing) they seem to be a better
> deal than the Little Giant pumps: they use less electricity, and pump
> nearly as much water.  Any experiences (positive or negative) would be
> appreciated.  Posting or email is fine.
 -- 

I have had two of the QVs on my 220 gal for many years. They seem to last
about 3 years at 400 gph at 6' head. They need to be oiled every 6 months.
They accumulated dust should be blown out at that time to aid cooling.

I recently replaced one with an energy efficient version of the QV. The unit
uses a third of the power as the original QV and is even quieter. I recommend
spending the extra $10-$15 for this updated model, if you decide on Hydrothrusters.

---

Soon to be unemployed, but still wasting time... Jon Wilson.


want filter recommendations

by enenkel/cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
Date: 20 Feb 92
Newsgroup: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria

I wrote:

>Amen, Phil!  That makes two of us that Eheims seem to have an allergy to.
>I've had a 2017 that went through 3 rotors and is now retired, and two
>2034's that are limping along with burned bearings and motor overhauls 
>every 2 months or so.

I forgot that not everyone knows the net.history of Eheims, so I'd better
add that, aside from Phil and myself, no one else on the net seems to have
had any trouble at all with Eheims!  People have had them for 8+ years
and never replaced a rotor.  Beats me.  Robert Enenkel


[M][R] Quiet One vs Iwaki

by SRRapp/ccmail.monsanto.com (Stephen Rapp)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria

In article <9aj702vW5b8001-at-JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>, pls20-at-cd.amdahl.com (Phil
Sanders) wrote:

> 
>   It's time to buy a water pump (to handle the return from sump to 100 gal
> reef tank). Are all the reported problems with the Quiet One still true?
> (i.e. they heat the water, flow rates are lower than advertised, etc) I'm 
> also looking at the Iwaki 40rlxt. My dealer says the Iwaki isn't worth the
> money.  Anyone care to comment?
> 
I have tried the new Quiet Ones and heat is still a problem.  I have gone
through several older versions that froze up after 8-12 months that I would
not use another Quiet One based on this history.  I'm sold on Iwaki
(Japanese made vs American made) for the low heat transfer, noise, and
reliability.  I have several that have been running continuously for over
2.5 years.  The only drawback to Iwaki's are the rather high cost.  I know
that other manufacturers, Little Giant for one are making bette pumps that
minimize heat transfer however I I havent tried these.  Past negative
history with Little Giant would not induce me to try these new pumps unless
I heard rave reviews from satisfied users.
Steve


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