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Native Fish

Contents:

  1. keeping native fishes
    by lee-at-ace.npac.syr.edu (Lee C. Brink) (Mon, 6 Dec 93)
  2. keeping native fishes
    by lee-at-ace.npac.syr.edu (Lee C. Brink) (Mon, 6 Dec 93)
  3. keeping native fishes
    by nda1-at-Isis.MsState.Edu (Noel D. Addy) (6 Dec 1993)
  4. keeping native fishes
    by narten-at-percival.albany.edu (Thomas Narten) (06 Dec 1993)
  5. keeping native fishes
    by den0-at-lehigh.edu (Mon, 6 Dec 1993)
  6. Game fish
    by allmon-at-ncvax2.llnl.gov (8 Jan 92)
  7. Game fish
    by hougen-at-cs.umn.edu (Dean Hougen) (17 Jan 92)
  8. More on native fish...
    by den0-at-lehigh.edu (29 Dec 93)
  9. Sexing bluegills
    by colemanr-at-garnet.berkeley.edu () (3 Jan 1994)
  10. Sexing bluegills
    by colemanr-at-garnet.berkeley.edu () (4 Jan 1994)

keeping native fishes

by lee-at-ace.npac.syr.edu (Lee C. Brink)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 93
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria,alt.aquaria

>>>>> On 6 Dec 1993 00:48:48 -0700, vbc-at-CS.Arizona.EDU (Verd B Calvert) said:
Verd> NNTP-Posting-Host: caslon.cs.arizona.edu

Verd> Does anyone have information about raising native (or so-called native)
Verd> fish such as bluegill, crappie, bass, channel catfish, etc.?


Here's what I know about the above species:

Sunfish: Treat them like a cichlid.  They don't set up large
territories per se, but the do set up a pecking order.  They'll eat
anything, and will within a short time of capture eat flake food.  As
for tank size, it depends on how man and the size of the fish.  I kept
several small specimens in a 55g, but these fish were around 2".

Bass: I have one now in a 33 Long (48x12x12).  This is a predatory
fish that, while initially does not like being kept in a tank (Mine
jumped out several times initially), they adapt well.  They will eat
ONLY live MOVING food.  Be prepared to spend some money each week on
bait fish from a fishing store.  Nothing in the tank is safe,
regardless of size.  If it can't swallow it whole, it will worry it's
prey into stress death.  Expect this fish over the long haul to get
18+ inches.

The others I have not kept, and know little about.


Verd> What are their food requirements, space needed, and personalities?


I have found the Smallmouth Bass to have about the same intelligence
as an Oscar.  Mine has figured out what a net is from across the room,
and where the feeder tank is located, so it knows when it is getting
fed.  


Verd> I suspect that many of these fish will be fairly agressive.  If this is
Verd> the case, what kinds of traditional fish can I keep with them?


You do NOY want to keep anything tropical with natives.  Native fish
like the water around 62 degrees F and WELL oxygenated (Sp?), while
the tropicals want around 72+.  Also, many of the fish are predatory
(All of the ones above are), and would eat the tropicals as soon as
feasable.

NOTE!!!  Look into you state's laws on collecting before taking ANY
fish from local waters.  DEC officials around the US are notorious for
not having a sense of humor when it comes to illegal collecting.  

Also note that many of the DEC laws in many states do NOT take into
account keeping fish in an aquarium.  I have been able to stymie the
Law Enforcement division of the NYS DEC more than once in regards to
native fish and aquarium, so this may frustrate you initially.


--
	Lee

+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Lee C Brink	             Office Support Co-ordinator at NPAC	   |
| lee-at-nova.npac.syr.edu      Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY 13244-4100  |
|			     315-443-1722				   |
| "And he harkened unto her: 'Hark Hark' harkened he..." - Stimpy 	   |
|							    Robin Hork     |
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+

keeping native fishes

by lee-at-ace.npac.syr.edu (Lee C. Brink)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 93
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria

>>>>> On 6 Dec 1993 13:53:15 GMT, nda1-at-Isis.MsState.Edu (Noel D. Addy) said:
Noel> NNTP-Posting-Host: isis.msstate.edu

Noel> In article <LEE.93Dec6073710-at-ace.npac.syr.edu> lee-at-ace.npac.syr.edu (Lee C. Brink) writes:
>
>>>>>> On 6 Dec 1993 00:48:48 -0700, vbc-at-CS.Arizona.EDU (Verd B Calvert) said:

>Bass:
>fish that, while initially does not like being kept in a tank (Mine
>jumped out several times initially), they adapt well.  They will eat
>ONLY live MOVING food.  Be prepared to spend some money each week on
Noel>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>bait fish from a fishing store.  Nothing in the tank is safe,
>regardless of size.  If it can't swallow it whole, it will worry it's
>prey into stress death.  Expect this fish over the long haul to get
>18+ inches.


Noel> Mine was introduced as a ~2" to the aquarium, and takes flake
Noel> food.  Live food is special-occasions-only.  (Mine is still a
Noel> youngster.)

In NY, I can only keep what is considered angling size, or 12+ inches.
I have tried several times to get him to go for the flake & pellet,
but even after 2 weeks he refuses.

He can be an expensive fish at times. 1-2 doz large (3-4 inch) minnows
is about average feed for a week.


--
	Lee

+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Lee C Brink	             Office Support Co-ordinator at NPAC	   |
| lee-at-nova.npac.syr.edu      Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY 13244-4100  |
|			     315-443-1722				   |
| "And he harkened unto her: 'Hark Hark' harkened he..." - Stimpy 	   |
|							    Robin Hork     |
+---------------------------+----------------------------------------------+

keeping native fishes

by nda1-at-Isis.MsState.Edu (Noel D. Addy)
Date: 6 Dec 1993
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria

In article <LEE.93Dec6073710-at-ace.npac.syr.edu> lee-at-ace.npac.syr.edu (Lee C. Brink) writes:
>
>>>>>> On 6 Dec 1993 00:48:48 -0700, vbc-at-CS.Arizona.EDU (Verd B Calvert) said:
>Verd> NNTP-Posting-Host: caslon.cs.arizona.edu
>
>Verd> Does anyone have information about raising native (or so-called native)
>Verd> fish such as bluegill, crappie, bass, channel catfish, etc.?
>
>
>Here's what I know about the above species:
>Bass:
>fish that, while initially does not like being kept in a tank (Mine
>jumped out several times initially), they adapt well.  They will eat
>ONLY live MOVING food.  Be prepared to spend some money each week on
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>bait fish from a fishing store.  Nothing in the tank is safe,
>regardless of size.  If it can't swallow it whole, it will worry it's
>prey into stress death.  Expect this fish over the long haul to get
>18+ inches.
>
>The others I have not kept, and know little about.
>
>

Mine was introduced as a ~2" to the aquarium, and takes flake
food.  Live food is special-occasions-only.  (Mine is still a
youngster.)

I found some of the southeast states to be receptive to private
collecting and aquariums, though the original poster was going to
get theirs from a hatchery.  Where's a hatchery near Tucson?

keeping native fishes

by narten-at-percival.albany.edu (Thomas Narten)
Date: 06 Dec 1993
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria,alt.aquaria

In article <LEE.93Dec6073710-at-ace.npac.syr.edu> lee-at-ace.npac.syr.edu (Lee C. Brink) writes:

> Verd> Does anyone have information about raising native (or so-called native)
> Verd> fish such as bluegill, crappie, bass, channel catfish, etc.?

First warning: They like to eat. Don't be conned into giving them a
lot of food.  They grow fast, something like 10 times the rate they'd
grow in the wild. :-)

> Bass: I have one now in a 33 Long (48x12x12).  This is a predatory
> fish that, while initially does not like being kept in a tank (Mine
> jumped out several times initially), they adapt well.  They will eat
> ONLY live MOVING food.  Be prepared to spend some money each week on
> bait fish from a fishing store.  Nothing in the tank is safe,

They love earth worms. Two problems you may run into.  First, worms
aren't cheap if you buy them every week.  Second, they are hard to
find during the winter in many places.  Solution is to raise your own
worms.  See the FAQ for instructions on this.

Also, try the small frozen/cooked coctail shrimp.  Bass can be coaxed
into eating them.
--
Thomas Narten
narten-at-cs.albany.edu

keeping native fishes

by den0-at-lehigh.edu
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria,alt.aquaria

In article <NARTEN.93Dec6112621-at-percival.albany.edu> 
narten-at-percival.albany.edu (Thomas Narten) writes:

>In article <LEE.93Dec6073710-at-ace.npac.syr.edu> 
>lee-at-ace.npac.syr.edu (Lee C. Brink) writes:

>> Verd> Does anyone have information about raising native 
>> Verd> (or so-called native)
>> Verd> fish such as bluegill, crappie, bass, channel catfish, etc.?

>> Bass: I have one now in a 33 Long (48x12x12).  This is a predatory
>> fish that, while initially does not like being kept in a tank (Mine
>> jumped out several times initially), they adapt well.  They will eat
>> ONLY live MOVING food.  Be prepared to spend some money each week on
>> bait fish from a fishing store.  Nothing in the tank is safe,

>They love earth worms. Two problems you may run into.  First, worms
>aren't cheap if you buy them every week.  Second, they are hard to
>find during the winter in many places.  Solution is to raise your own
>worms.  See the FAQ for instructions on this.

I've got 160 bluegill, all but 2 are in large tanks in the basement, the
other 2 are in a 10 gal tank in my sunroom.  I feed them earthworms which
I also raise.  I got around the problem of cold winters by building a large
worm bed in my basement.  It is odorless, and eliminates food costs, except
for labor.

When I had them outside during the summer, I also put a bug light suspended
a couple of inches over the water.  They would feast on insects all night.

I got the bluegill from a local fish farm.  The Aquaculture Magazine buyer's
guide (phone: 704-254-7334) lists lots of sources for stock.  You should
contact your state fish and game dept. to find out what the laws in your
state are before capturing wild fish.  Here in PA, you can catch minnows,
which I have had very good success doing, and that is much cheaper than 
paying for them, if you decide to get catfish or bass.

The best book I have found on raising these fish is "The Freshwater
Aquaculture Book" by McLarney, isbn:0-88179-018-4.  There is information on
habitat tolerance ranges, feeding, breeding, etc.  My tanks are holding
steady at 58 degrees.

Dean

Game fish

by allmon-at-ncvax2.llnl.gov
Date: 8 Jan 92
Newsgroup: alt.aquaria

On a recent trip to Minnesota I was suprised to find that you could buy
game fish (Bass, Pikes, Muskies etc.) in any of the pet stores (they even
sold live trout in the supermarkets). Here in California it appears (after
talking to several people in the pet stores) that it is illegal to sell
any kind of game fish without special permits. Does anybody know the 
rational behind this? I can see why they would not let you own fish like
piranha (you can buy them in Minnesota also) for fear of people dumping
them into the waters but what about fish like large mouth bass, perch or
sunfish that are already native to our waters. What states allow game fish
ownership? Nevada maybe?

--Jim

Game fish

by hougen-at-cs.umn.edu (Dean Hougen)
Date: 17 Jan 92
Newsgroup: alt.aquaria

aallmon-at-ncvax2.llnl.gov writes:

>On a recent trip to Minnesota I was suprised to find that you could buy
>game fish (Bass, Pikes, Muskies etc.) in any of the pet stores (they even
>sold live trout in the supermarkets). Here in California it appears (after
>talking to several people in the pet stores) that it is illegal to sell
>any kind of game fish without special permits. Does anybody know the 
>rational behind this? I can see why they would not let you own fish like
>piranha (you can buy them in Minnesota also) for fear of people dumping
>them into the waters but what about fish like large mouth bass, perch or
>sunfish that are already native to our waters. What states allow game fish
>ownership? Nevada maybe?

Nobody is worried about the introduction of tropical fish to Minnesota
waters as they would be hard-pressed to survive our autumns, to say
nothing of our winters.  As for game fish, I think the stores do need
a permit, although the rules have loosened up some recently.  In general,
states worry about people introducing any animal into the wild that is
not native to a particular region (i.e. a particular lake where fish X is
not already found).  But, I suppose our lawmakers realized that with a
well funded government department which has as its primary purpose the
introduction of game fishes where they don't belong, the amount of damage
we amateurs can do is negligible compared to the damage done by the pros.

>--Jim

Dean Hougen
--
"Some civil servants are just like my loved ones,
 They work so hard and they try to be strong."
  - Talking Heads

More on native fish...

by den0-at-lehigh.edu
Date: 29 Dec 93
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria

Since the last short discussion on native fish, I have done a little 
homework about the state of things in the state of Pennsylvania.  I have 
read the fishing regulations, contacted the fish commision, and checked out 
a book describing the species in PA.  I have also spent some time poking 
around in some local streams and the Delaware river.  I have been unable to 
find any information on the overall ecology of local streams and rivers, 
although there has been some stuff written about the lower Delaware when it 
becomes an estuary.  

Basically, PA doesn't seem to mind if you take sport fishes, bait fishes, 
frogs or turtles as long as they are not endangered and you don't sell 
them.  You are not allowed to sell anything unless you are a licensed bait 
fisherman (and that is only allowed in lake Erie) or you culture the species 
under license from the fish commission which costs $25 per species.  Even 
then, you can't sell the fish you collect, only the offspring which you have 
cultured under license.  But, if you don't sell the fish, you don't need a 
license.  Anyway, that is how I interpret what I've read.

I would like to find more information on stream and river ecology in this 
area, especially the food chain, so I would appreciate any pointers.

I am planning on setting up a larger tank this spring which will incorporate 
as many of the species I can to reproduce the environment of a small 
stream.   If anyone else is interested in the same kind of project, I would 
be pleased to correspond.

Dean

Sexing bluegills

by colemanr-at-garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Date: 3 Jan 1994
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria

In article <den0.262.2D218FFB-at-lehigh.edu>,  <den0-at-lehigh.edu> wrote:
>I have had a bunch (appr 170) bluegills since last spring.  Some of them 
>have reached 6-7 inches and I would like to separate them from the rest to 
>try inducing them to spawn.  I have found information on their breeding
>habits, but nothing on how to tell the males from the females.  I would 
>appreciate it if someone could direct me to a source for that information.
>Thanks.
>Dean

Hi Dean,
  I did a fair bit of my thesis work on bluegills... but always in the field.
In my case, that was in Lake Opinicon, Ontario (north of Kingston).  Anyway,
we never had any luck breeding bluegills in the lab and I don't think too
many other people have either.   Basically, what you will find is that they
are strictly seasonal spawners, spawning in the early summer as the water
is warming somewhere around 18 to 22 oC or so.  In Ontario, they stop 
spawning in early July (they start in early June), and we suspect this 
is because the fry need enough time to reach a certain size before the fall, 
ie. spawning after early July would be a waste of effort.  So, I suspect
your best bet is to try cooling down the tank for a long time (weeks, a month?)
and then raise it up again.  Doing this we've got them to make nests but
never spawn. 
  Re sexing bluegills.  Males have deeper bodies and much more color than 
females.  The females generally have vertical bars on them and the males 
develop a deep orange breast area when they are ready to spawn.  Males will
make nests in the substrate.  One trick that we found was to put a line of
plants or other stuff in the tank partially blocking off about a foot of 
the end of a tank.  A male would then take over this end area and start 
nesting.  Nest making will be obvious -- the male sweeps material out of 
a circular patch with his fins, particularly his tail fin.  
 I would be VERY INTERESTED if you do get them to spawn.  Write me back if
you want more info.  
-- Ron Coleman
   colemanr-at-garnet.berkeley.edu 
P.S. My studies were on the parental care males provide after egg-laying.



Sexing bluegills

by colemanr-at-garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Date: 4 Jan 1994
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria

In article <2gahc1$ekq-at-gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
Dustin Lee Laurence <laurence-at-cco.caltech.edu> wrote:
>colemanr-at-garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:
>
Re bluegill spawning in the lab:
>
>Did you ever cycle them through a complete year?  This strikes me as
>very similar to the problem of getting hard corals to spawn--some
>species will spawn once a year based on temperature and phase of the
>moon, and probably other things.  One approach I'd like to see tried
>more often (I'll do this when I have some other issues where I want
>them) is attempting to provide the cues present in nature.  At some
....
>

Well, our field data seems to indicate that the really important thing
for bluegill is water temperature.  This makes sense because water
temperature is really important in determining how well the eggs survive
to hatching.  If it's too cold, the eggs die.  Warmer temperatures also
make the eggs hatch faster.  Of course for other fish and aquatic 
organisms, particularly more tropical ones, temperature may not be the 
key, but it appears to be for bluegill.

-- Ron Coleman
   colemanr-at-garnet.berkeley.edu



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