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Contents:

  1. Thiel's reply to my X-PO4 problem
    by krogers/javelin.sim.es.com (K. Rogers) (Tue, 28 Jan 1992)
  2. Thiel's reply to my X-PO4 problem
    by krogers/javelin.sim.es.com (K. Rogers) (Tue, 28 Jan 1992)
  3. More on X-Phosphate
    by krogers/javelin.sim.es.com (K. Rogers) (8 Jan 92)

Thiel's reply to my X-PO4 problem

by krogers/javelin.sim.es.com (K. Rogers)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1992
Newsgroup: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria

For those who remember, I had a bad experience with "X-Phosphate" and
posted so a couple weeks ago.  I eventually got in contact with Albert
Thiel about it.  I sent him a second (unopend, exactly as received) of
two buckets of what was sold to me as Thiel Aqua Tech X-Phosphate from
Mail Order Pet Shop.  Below is a copy of a reply I just received back.

Keith :
 
I received the _bucket_ you sent with the white aluminum oxide that you bought
from Mail Order Pet Shop (MOPS).
 
Whereas MOPS does sell most  of our products I cannot take responsibility for
what they sent you. It appears to be F200 from ALCOA which we do not sell
because the Angstrom size of the pores is too small for it to remove phosphates
for any length of time. Phosphate typically has a 52 Angstrom size. We use a
differently treated aluminum oxide from a company in Georgia.
 
We also do not use the type of container that they sent it in. All our products
have TAT color lables and the bucket you shipped did not.
 
I must assume that the phosphate removing compound you received was not ours. I
will call MOPS on Monday and discuss this matter with them.
 
My recommendation is use only TAT products with original labels . I am truly
sorry for the problems you had.
 
If there is anything we can do to assist you let me know.
 
Albert J. Thiel

/*************************************************************************/

To recap some of the discussion I received on this topic from other
Netters, those (myself included) who have used X-PO4 that came in a
real TAT container, with the label, report good results with the
product.  All the negative responses I received came from "X-PO4" sent
in non-TAT marked containers (some even in unlabeled plastic sacks!)
from MOPS.  The invoice I have from MOPS clearly states that the
product was sold to me as Thiel Aqua Tech X-Phosphate.  Albert doesn't
think it is.  It didn't come in a TAT container.  I'll let you know if
I get another response back from Thiel after he talks with MOPS.

-- 
Keith Rogers
Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
krogers-at-javelin.sim.es.com


Thiel's reply to my X-PO4 problem

by krogers/javelin.sim.es.com (K. Rogers)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1992
Newsgroup: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria

For those who remember, I had a bad experience with "X-Phosphate" and
posted so a couple weeks ago.  I eventually got in contact with Albert
Thiel about it.  I sent him a second (unopend, exactly as received) of
two buckets of what was sold to me as Thiel Aqua Tech X-Phosphate from
Mail Order Pet Shop.  Below is a copy of a reply I just received back.

Keith :
 
I received the _bucket_ you sent with the white aluminum oxide that you bought
from Mail Order Pet Shop (MOPS).
 
Whereas MOPS does sell most  of our products I cannot take responsibility for
what they sent you. It appears to be F200 from ALCOA which we do not sell
because the Angstrom size of the pores is too small for it to remove phosphates
for any length of time. Phosphate typically has a 52 Angstrom size. We use a
differently treated aluminum oxide from a company in Georgia.
 
We also do not use the type of container that they sent it in. All our products
have TAT color lables and the bucket you shipped did not.
 
I must assume that the phosphate removing compound you received was not ours. I
will call MOPS on Monday and discuss this matter with them.
 
My recommendation is use only TAT products with original labels . I am truly
sorry for the problems you had.
 
If there is anything we can do to assist you let me know.
 
Albert J. Thiel

/*************************************************************************/

To recap some of the discussion I received on this topic from other
Netters, those (myself included) who have used X-PO4 that came in a
real TAT container, with the label, report good results with the
product.  All the negative responses I received came from "X-PO4" sent
in non-TAT marked containers (some even in unlabeled plastic sacks!)
from MOPS.  The invoice I have from MOPS clearly states that the
product was sold to me as Thiel Aqua Tech X-Phosphate.  Albert doesn't
think it is.  It `oyҏ3ŠÂX_YHÔ¨°²÷*ALA!STD\ส¦Å±F,}Ö¸ÖFì­KgujËÛ
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Subject: [M] Phosphate mistake


 In a previous post I mentioned reading a scientific article which stated
that phosphates inhibit the photosynthetic process of some phytoplankton.
Unfortunately I have not been able to locate the article in a reference
list I have. One article did state that orthophosphates inhibit calcifica-
tion in coralline algae. I must have gotten the two mixed up. A copy of
the coralline algae article has been made.
 Many articles on the culture of marine dinoflagellates state that adding
phosphates, iron and other chemicals actually increases the bloom popula-
tions. They dont really state the reasoning for this except that tests show
it to be true.
 So (phosphates good for phytoplankton culture, bad for calcification).

 Steve Tyree - Reef Breeder


More on X-Phosphate

by krogers/javelin.sim.es.com (K. Rogers)
Date: 8 Jan 92
Newsgroup: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria

The e-mail continues to accrue about my experience with X-Phosphate.
I should point out that several people have been using it for over a
year now and have never had any problems like I outlined.  Also, I'm
now in contact with Albert Thiel about it.  One thing he pointed out
to me is that they don't sell X-Phosphate without the TAT label, nor
in the small buckets I received it in.

It *may* be that That Fish Place didn't send me Thiel's X-Phosphate,
but somebody else's product, or maybe even just a placebo for all I
know at this point.  Don't sue me on this, I'm just speculating, not
slandering TFP.  At any rate, they will have to explain why I didn't
get what they were claiming to be TAT X-Phosphate in a TAT container.
The first batch I purchased (over a year ago) did come in a TAT
container and that load was fine.  The second didn't and that one was
bad.

According to Albert, TAT sells, on average, over 6000 of the 60 gallon
units of X-Phosphate a month; less of the larger units.  He has never
heard of anything like I've experienced.  By way of personal
observation, given how many people love to engage in Thiel-bashing, I
think we'd have heard of any bad experiences before mine.

I'll keep you posted on what I find.  At this point, I think my
confidence is such that I would use Thiel's X-Phosphate, so long as it
came in his containers.  Several .netters have nothing but good to say
about it.  I will give it a try again once this gets sorted out.

G'day,
-- 
Keith Rogers
Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
krogers-at-javelin.sim.es.com


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