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Ceomat

Contents:

  1. CO2 system: Ceomat Reviews?
    by Thomas Rockwell <rockwell-at-fnald0.fnal.gov> (Fri, 06 Sep 1996)
  2. CO2 Tablets from Germany, CEOMAT?
    by "Shimoda, Wade" <WShimoda/hei.com> (Fri, 05 Sep 97)
  3. Re:Ceomat CO2
    by Jim Spencer <jimsp/yahoo.com> (Mon, 17 Nov 1997)
  4. Hydrogen Peroxide, SAE feeding and Ceomat
    by "Merrill Cohen" <amc2/ix.netcom.com> ()
  5. C02 pellets
    by "Dennis S. Gray" <73757.2462/CompuServe.COM> (05 Nov 96)
  6. New CO2 dosing system
    by hong/net1.nw.com.au (Stephen Finnigan) (Thu, 27 Jun 1996)
  7. Biogas
    by "BRENDAN MCEVOY" <bn/dna.bio.warwick.ac.uk> (Fri, 30 Jan 1998)
  8. CO2 Tablets Vs CO2 Gas Cylinders
    by Alan Silver <alan/consultancy-services.ferret.com> (Tue, 10 Feb 1998)
  9. Alternative CO2
    by fisheye/cybersurf.co.uk (J Russell) (Thu, 19 Feb 1998)
  10. Method of introducing Co2 question
    by riccooney/worldnet.att.net (Ric Cooney) (26 Feb 1998)
  11. CO2 fetilization question...ceomat
    by PSX_Warrior/webtv.net (M K) (Fri, 10 Apr 1998)
  12. Melissa's Ceomat question
    by Roxanne Bittman <RBITTMAN/hq.dfg.ca.gov> (Mon, 08 Jun 1998)
  13. Nutriflex CO2 System
    by Michael Moncur <mgm/starlingtech.com> (Sun, 13 Jun 1999)
  14. RE: What is a membrane reactor for CO2?
    by "Monolith Marine Monsters (m3)" <puffie/marine-monsters.com> (Fri, 7 Jan 2000)

CO2 system: Ceomat Reviews?

by Thomas Rockwell <rockwell-at-fnald0.fnal.gov>
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants

Bryan W Vought wrote:
> 
> I have a 55 gallon planted tank that has been set up for 1.5 years.  I
> have successfully kept the plants alive, but I have not seen them
> flourish.  For this reason, I would like to take down my current set-up
> and rebuild it from the ground up.  That includes a CO2 system.  I tried
> the yeast method but did not get good results per amount of effort
> required in setting up the damn thing.
> 
> Does anyone have any information, anecdotes, ideas, etc. about the Ceomat
> low pressure CO2 system advertised on That Fish Place Summer Catalog P.
> 17?  Would those individuals please share these ideas with me?
> 
> I would greatly appreciate any help on the CO2 issue.
> 
> Thanks,
> Bryan Vought
> bwvought-at-mailbox.syr.edu


Bryan,

I saw the ad in Pet Warehouse's  catalog.  IMHO, it looks useless.  The
initial cost >$100 is about what you would spend on a DIY manual CO2
tank setup.  I think the ad said one batch of chemicals would produce
250 grams of CO2.  Thats not much.  A manual CO2 system will be much
cheaper and much less work in the long run.


Tom


CO2 Tablets from Germany, CEOMAT?

by "Shimoda, Wade" <WShimoda/hei.com>
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 97

If you're talking about the CEOMAT system, an experienced fish keeping 
friend of mine recently told me about his experience with it.  Basically, he 
said it appears to be a product that wasn't completely tested before being 
placed on the market.  He had lots of problems maintaining a relatively 
constant supply of CO2, and it used much more of the CO2 generating material 
than stated in the instructions.  He purchased and used two CEOMAT systems, 
and gave up on them after about 2 months of use.


Re:Ceomat CO2

by Jim Spencer <jimsp/yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997

Art wrote;

>I was wondering if anybody has experience with the
>Ceomat CO2 product? I know that solutions like this >go against the
grain of the List, but I'm not sure I >want to mess with a pressurized
system which will >cost over several hundred dollars. Don't get me
>wrong, I'm not slamming pressurized systems, I'm just >exploring
alternate solutions which may be cheaper >and easier to maintain. I
would like to hear from >people who have actually used, or know
somebody >who has used, this system. Thanx!


I don't think looking for alternate solutions which may be cheaper and
easier to maintain go against the grain of this list. In fact much of
the focus of the list seems to be looking for such solutions. 

Before buying a pressure bottle CO2 system I also looked for cheaper
and more convenient systems.  Based on the advertising claims of the
Ceomat system however it didn't appear to me to be cheaper or more
convenient.  The lowest price I've seen for the Ceomat is a $129. 
From a local welding supplier I bought a 5lb CO2 bottle and regulator
for  $134.   I know others have paid less and I see Harbor Freight
sells a CO2 bottle and regulator for $97. The only other thing you
will need is a needle valve which you can pickup for $15 to $30. 
            
I think the real cost difference is the in recharging.  The Ceromet
ads claim one recharge is equivalent to a 250g bottle. If my math is
right, that works out to be 9 recharges for a 5lb bottle.  I pay $5 to
refill the 5lb bottle. The advertised price for the Ceromet is about
$6 per recharge. 

As for convenience I find that once the bubbling rate is set I need to
pay very little attention to the CO2 system until after several months
when the bottle must be refilled.  I don't think cleaning and
recharging the Ceomat 9 times in the same time period would be more
convenient. 


Hydrogen Peroxide, SAE feeding and Ceomat

by "Merrill Cohen" <amc2/ix.netcom.com>

"Ceomat" looked like a nice piece of equipment, and The Aquarium Center in
Randallstown, MD bought a number of them which sold quickly.  However, they
were all returned to the store because of a defect.  I don't know if this
has been rectified now that the company has been purchased by Red Sea (but
they still advertise under the Aqua-Medic name -- from Germany).

Merrill


C02 pellets

by "Dennis S. Gray" <73757.2462/CompuServe.COM>
Date: 05 Nov 96
To: Aquatic Plants List

In Response to Rochelle's question re: CO2 pellets...

I was also interested in using the 'CEOMAT' system, before deciding to
build my own pressurized-gas version.  I did a little investigating
and decided against the pellets.  The reasons are as follows;

1) PRICE!  The CEOMAT system is priced around $160.00 US and is little
more than an acrylic vessel with a drip regulator,

2) COST TO REFILL!  The CeoPack refill costs $13.00 US and fills the
unit twice.  I can fill my 10 lb. CO2 bottle for $6.00, 

3) WHAT IF THEY QUIT MAKING THE PELLETS?  I can always find someone
using CO2 gas (welding supply, beverage co., etc.), 

4) THE SYSTEM IS NOT EASILY AUTOMATED.  How do you turn off the water
*and* the CO2 to the tank...? two solenoid valves?

5) NOBODY COULD GIVE  ME ANY INFORMATION:
	a) What's the gas composition? (99% CO2, 97% CO2??)
	b) How much (volume) does one fill-up of pellets yield?
	c) How often do I have to fill the water reservoir? (the unit uses tap
water to cause the pellets to release CO2)
	d) What if somebody opens the water drip valve all the way?  Does it
explode? (a common fear of  pressurized bottle owners)

Prior to joinng this list, I sent for info, direct to the vendor, and
got no response.  I got a flyer with a pretty picture of the product
and the price, but no details.  In the Ad, it "claims" to be safer,
and to be fair, it IS much smaller and much better looking than my
humble homebrew rig.  But I'm still alive and have been using my gas
bottle without injury for several months without problems.  I built a
pressurized gas system for about $125.00 and it IS automated, and the
bottle lasts me about 6 months, give or take.  It would last longer if
I used a better reactor (OK,OK I'm building one! - Thanks to the 'Krib
for the details).  Now that I've vented (pun intended), I feel
better...

New CO2 dosing system

by hong/net1.nw.com.au (Stephen Finnigan)
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996

>From: Cliff Andrews <CLAndrews-at-gnn.com>
>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 07:07:34
>Subject: New CO2 dosing system
>
>	Does anyone have any feedback on that CO2 dosing system made by AQUA 
>MEDIC, it's called CEOMAT and uses a chemical compound to provide CO2.
>The first I've seen of it is in the July issue of FAMA. Looks like it is 
>smaller than a 2 L-bottle. What I like about it is it's made out of hard 
>plastic and could with stand alittle pressor.
>
>     Look for info........... Cliff

It's probably a bit late to discuss this subject now but has anyone
tried to make a DIY version of this?  An airtight jar filled with
cheap bicarbonate of soda with HCI dripping on it.  Well, I thought
with all the yeast fermentation and fire extinguisher experimenting
going around, it might just be crazy enough to work.

I have tried to do something like that in the past but it wasn't very
successful.  I would love to try again but recently I persuaded my mum
to buy me a manual pressurised system on grounds that I'd stop
experimenting with DIY stuff and spilling sticky yeast, water and
suger mixtures on the floor.

Stephen



Biogas

by "BRENDAN MCEVOY" <bn/dna.bio.warwick.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Hi Thomas,
                   I 've read about this system of biogas production 
and the main points against it are:
1) its hard to control the amount of  carbon dioxide  produced
2) you can get more than carbon dioxide produced such as hydrogen 
sulphide and ammonia as your yeast batch becomes exhauseted as well 
as various alcohols produced.

I suppose the way to overcome this would be to replace your yeast 
batch on a regular basis. You can also clean up your carbon dioxide 
to some extent by bubbling your carbon dioxide through another bottle 
of water before it goes into the tank, this I've read is supposed to 
improve it in terms of removing some of the unwanted gases etc.
 I think a careful eye though should be kept on your yeast batch 
especially if keeping sensitive fish such as apistos.

 While writing about this I thought of an old chemistry experiment 
from school that used marble chips and hydrochloric acid to produce 
carbon dioxide. This system could be adapted at home by using some 
form of calcium carbonate ie chalk, sea shells, marble chips or 
bicarbonate of soda (used for baking) with some form of weak 
acid such as vinegar (acetic acid) or citric acid (citric acid is 
available for cooking and from chemists- at least in the UK). You 
could then stick these into the same type of vessel as you would for 
the yeast and sugar and let the carbon dioxide bubble into the tank. 
You may have to watch the supply as the rate of production of carbon 
dioxide could be alot faster (depending on what ingredients you use 
and whether the chalk etc is powdered). 
  Both methods are cheap but the 2nd method avoids the production of 
unwanted gases etc.
 I would be interested to hear peoples thoughts on this and 
experiences of the 2nd method as i've tried neither.

Brendan
Brendan McEvoy
Dept Of Cell and Molecular Development
University Of Warwick
Gibbet Hill Rd
Coventry CV4 7Al
UK
Tel (01203) 522556


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CO2 Tablets Vs CO2 Gas Cylinders

by Alan Silver <alan/consultancy-services.ferret.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants

Neil Bedford <neil-at-njbedfo.demon.co.uk> wrote ...
>I Have just recently set up a 200l planted aquarium. I have based it loosely
>on the Dennerle system, but I'm not sure what type of CO2 system to use. At
>present I've got one of the new Bioplast CO2 generators and tablets which
>offer a very cheap way to put CO2 into your tank (£11.50) but I wonder if
>this cheap system is any good compared to a normal CO2 gas cylinder system.
>Has anyone got any thoughts, facts or ideas on the pros and cons of these
>two systems ??
>
>Thanks in advance Neil Bedford

Neil,

I tried those tablets and they were awful. Every time I used them, the
water turned milky, the pH didn't shift and the plants didn't do any
better. In my experience the whole system was a total waste of money.

I then switch to a DIY (yeast) CO2 system and got instant results.
Within a couple of hours of putting it into the tank, I had streams of
bubbles from the plants and lovely clear water. I used the Bioplast box
as a CO2 diffuser. I plugged the CO2 into the top of it and put it on an
angle next to my filter outlet so that the water flows down the bit
where you are supposed to drop the tablet and past the water/CO2
interface. This keeps the water moving past the interface, ensuring a
good mix of CO2 rich water around the tank.

Whole DIY set up cost me pennies. I would go down this route if I were
you. I have had excellent results.

Alan


NOTE - In order to discourage unsolicited e-mail, the address in the
header may have .ferret added. Please remove this before replying.

-- 

Sent By   : Alan Silver 
Fish Page : http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/6749/fishtank.html

It's not an optical illusion, it just looks like one


Alternative CO2

by fisheye/cybersurf.co.uk (J Russell)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998
To: eriko/elmer.wrq.com

 Re Bioplast CO2 system:

Bioplast make a range of stuff for planted aquariums such as liquid and
substrate fertilizers, an exellent fine grained substrate and a couple of
CO2 systems to name but a few.  The CO2 system I use is very simple.  It
consists of a clear plastic container about the size of a soft drinks can
which acts as a reservoir to trap CO2 gas.  This container is stuck onto the
inside of your aquarium with a couple of suckers.  One side of this
container forms a shoot  running to the bottom into which you drop a tablet.
The tablet on contact with the water fizzes and disolves releasing the CO2.
The bottom of the vessel is perforated to allow the water in and the shoot
directs the tablet away to an area where the gas can collect as a single
trapped bubble.  The CO2 is then slowly disolved into the water.  Further
more bioplast supply the tablets in 4 handy flavours - Original CO2 - CO2
with added Iron - with added Potassium - and with added Manganese.  Cool
 huh.

OK pros and cons - Well its not very accurate, you just have to watch the
plants fish and invertebrates and take it from there.  Bioplast give a
fairly vague dosage level which is next to useless since it really depends
on your set up.  The other problem is its not automated.  I guess you could
rig up some kind of cunning feeder system but I just drop a tablet in when I
feed the fish :) .  On the other side of the coin the systems main advantage
is its cheap.  Really cheap.  The plastic container (in Scotland) costs =A31=
0
and a tube of 20 tablets is around =A33 ( a compressed gas system is
=A3200-400).  The amount of tablets you get through varies depending apon=
 tank
size and plant requirements.  I tend to use the system as a booster once
every few days.  Whilst I accept this means fluxuations in CO2 levels they
can't amount to much, certainly no more than say a water change.  Or to put
it another way, my Crypts look just fine.  oops I shouldn't have said that
I'm sure I can see them melting now :) .  Another thing is its so portable
and can easily be shifted between tanks, no tubes or bottles etc.  I haven't
tried the yeast mentod as a cheap CO2 supply but I should imagine Bioplasts
system is slightly more controlable.  For smaller tanks tablets can be
broken and for medium tanks counted to determine a dosage.  As for larger
tanks 150/200 litres plus forget it.  The initial cost is small but you'd
need a lot of tablets.  To give you an idea of dosages and costs Bioplast
recommends - quote- "Depending on tank size and rate of plant growth, insert
1 tablet every 1-3 days into the CO2 diffusion chamber.  Sufficient for
60-100 litres of aquarium water. -end quote- .  Vague or what!

Bioplasts HQ Address: BioPlast GmbH                    =20
                                  P.O. Box 4006
                                  40687 Erkrath                             =
=20
                                  Germany                           =20
     =20
I hope this is of some help.  If you want to know anything else I'll do my
best to fill you in.  I was hoping to ask my chemistry knowledgable friend
what made it fizz. =20


Cheers.
                                                        =20
Jas:)
The Fisheye Gallery



Method of introducing Co2 question

by riccooney/worldnet.att.net (Ric Cooney)
Date: 26 Feb 1998
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants

In article <01bd42c6$6df56b00$0401a8c0-at-ted.comcat.com>, "Ted Symons"
<tsymons-at-ken-tech.com> wrote:

> Ric:
> 
> Do you know approx how much longer a suger and yeast culture may last
> compred to the Ceomat 250 ?   For that matter how long will the metioned
> product last before I would need to replace the agent, which currently
> retails at $11.65 each from Pet Warehouse ?
> 

I understand that the last about a month per refill. The Ceomat 250 sell
for $129.00 and refills are $11.95 in units of three. I really dont think
this is cost efficient even assuming that it works as advertived. I have
used the sugar/yeast method for years and only recently converted to the
CO2 bottle system, not because the yeast system didn't work, but because
I'm lazy and found out I could buy a 6 months supply for an inital cost of
$69.00 and a yearly cost after that of $25.00 (2 refills). The refill cost
is much less than my yeast/sugar/NaHCO3 cost, (if your going to be picky
then I need to add in the cost of the baking soda used to raise the pH of
the mixture to extend its life.)

I'll leave it to you to do the math for the return on investment, figuring
the cost of 2 cups sugar, 1/4 pack yeast etc. is too tedious. But you get
the idea, it a long time before payback. Its just easier. Oh BTW an other
advantage of the  CO2 tank is that I now run three tanks off of the same
CO2 bottle. Lets see now you have to divid..........I can't stand it I'm
going for the sherry.

TTFN

-- 

Ric Cooney, N3BRB
RicCooney-at-worldnet.att.net
Aquatic Gardeners Association

Maryland is for Crabbs...........I'm doing my share....


CO2 fetilization question...ceomat

by PSX_Warrior/webtv.net (M K)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc


 I ordered the Ceomat system and ended up returning it. They changed
their design for the regulator valve (or what  I was told)  and
neglected to make a new set of instructions for the correct hook up.So I
was left with an old set of instructions and no clue of how to hook this
thing up. Red Sea imports these. Call them,maybe they can help.Though it
took them a month to get back to me. Anyhow after thinking about the
cost for their refills and what CO2 you get out of them I returned it
and got an Ehiem kit ($199). Think of it this way, you will always be
able to get a CO2 recharge but what are you going to do if they stop
making Ceomats? You'll have a nice plastic paper weight. Anyhow thats
what I went thru and I am glad I went with the cylinders over the Ceomat   
Mike
  


Melissa's Ceomat question

by Roxanne Bittman <RBITTMAN/hq.dfg.ca.gov>
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998

Melissa asked if the Ceomat was a reasonably good
system for CO2 generation in aquaria.
Well, I have no personal experience with it, but have
only heard bad things about it, such as:
1.  It is unreliable and "gums up" in a short period of
time.
2.  It therefore does not deliver a constant amount of
CO2
3.  The company was going to supposedly fix some of
these problems in future generations of the
equipment, but how can you guarantee that you get
one of these later gen. models?

I would avoid this at all costs.

Having tried a couple of different methods, I feel the
compressed gas method is still the easiest to use,
the most reliable and not expensive in the long run.  It
is not necessarily the safest of course...

Roxanne Bittman


Nutriflex CO2 System

by Michael Moncur <mgm/starlingtech.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999

on 01:48 PM 6/12/99 , Jeff Malmquist wrote:

 >Has anyone else heard of this system?&nbsp; I bought it and just set it up
 >tonight.&nbsp; Any warnings, opinions, or tips?

I actually, coincidentally, just removed the Nutriflex CO2 system from my 
tank a couple of days ago. Here's my assessment:

It *does* work. I did some experiments with containers of tap water, and 
found that adding a tablet does actually increase the CO2 concentration in 
the water, and does reduce the PH. Using the plastic reactor, CO2 is 
absorbed gradually throughout the day.

However, don't expect the system to perform as well as a pressurized CO2 
system, or even as well as a yeast-sugar setup. This is my first plant 
tank, so I can't really compare, but I think it was a bit better than a 
non-CO2 tank, but not much.

I just replaced the system with a 2.5lb pressurized tank on Friday, and 
I've seen dramatic improvements in my plant growth already. So the 
Nutriflex system definitely wasn't quite as useful as the "real thing".

One warning: when you drop the tablets in, a lot of CO2 bubbles escape the 
reactor. According to what I've read on the net, this sudden influx of CO2 
can cause a quick pH drop if your water is too soft. The same applies if 
you accidentally drop a tablet directly into the tank...

All in all, it's not bad, but the pressurized system is definitely cheaper 
and more effective in the long run.

- --
michael moncur   mgm@starlingtech.com   http://www.starlingtech.com/
"Reality is the leading cause of stress for those in touch with it."
                 -- Jack Wagner


RE: What is a membrane reactor for CO2?

by "Monolith Marine Monsters (m3)" <puffie/marine-monsters.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000

  >Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:41:44 -0500 (EST)
  >From: wshimoda@alum.mit.edu
  >Subject: What is a membrane reactor for CO2?
  >
  >I found a 'membrane reactor, double' at pets.com listed under
  >their 'live plants supplies' section and was wondering if anyone
  >knew what it was, how it worked, how well it worked, etc.?
  >
  >Thanks,
  >Wade

That should be the one made by Aqua Medic which is to be used with their
chemical CO2 reactor the Ceomat.  The Ceomat is a relatively low pressured
CO2 system, I doubt that if the membrane reactor is suitable to be used with
other high pressured CO2 systems.  We used to sell those membrane reactors
in the past.  They consist of a few whitish membrane and no microbubbles
could be seen on its reactive side (as told by Ceomat users).  The
instruction claims that CO2 reacts w/ H2O behind the membrane, etc.

Edward
Monolith Marine Monsters
http://www.marine-monsters.com/fresh.html


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