The Krib Plants Plants!	[E-mail]

Apongetons

by harold-at-ppdrs3.ppd.nrl.navy.mil (James Harold)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993

In article <1993Nov18.143648.14362-at-bmers95.bnr.ca> bhaskar-at-brtph181.bnr.ca
(Shaji Bhaskar) writes:
>In article <CGnLpw.KL8-at-cnsnews.Colorado.EDU> vaanderi-at-benji.Colorado.EDU
(VAANDERING ERIC W) writes:
>>I have an apongeton Crispus and I have a couple of questions:
>>
>>First, it is blooming and has now sent up 2 four foot flower stalks.
>>Is there anyway I can actually reproduce the plant?
<..various stuff deleted..>
>flowering periods, so I could be doing something wrong.  Has anyone
>been able to keep Aponogetons alive for more than two or three years?
>
A couple of comments.
  1) My crispus are doing very nicely at the moment (they're about
     three years old: the largest is now brushing the surface
     in a 2' deep tank).  While I haven't tried hybernating
     them, I will note that I moved recently and all my plants
     (plus 2 khuli's who hid a little too effectively in
      some anubias roots) spent a week or so outside in
     cold (but above freezing) weather.

     Mine have bloomed once or twice.  I just let the stalk
     grow.  Eventually plantlets formed, then dropped off
     and scattered through the tank.  I still find baby
     plants here and there:  I'll agree with Shaji that
     they seem to grow slowly.

  2) I was talking to Mike T. (Delaware Aquatics) a few weeks
     ago about hybernating some other varieties.  He said
     that the dormant periods are triggered by blooming:  once
     the plant has dropped seeds it takes a rest.  He
     suggested admiring the bloom (if it's worth admiring)
     for a day or two, then clipping the stalk.  We weren't
     talking about crispis, though, so you can take this
     however you like.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
James Harold                                 still looking for a 
harold-at-ppdrs3.nrl.navy.mil                      clever quote 

Aponogeton Ulvaceus - Hybrid: How to grow.

by richard-at-vrx.net (Richard Sexton)
Date: 22 Jul 1994
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria,sci.aquaria

In article <30otlv$iie-at-bigboote.WPI.EDU>,
Paul Szymkiewicz <mrpaolo-at-owl.WPI.EDU> wrote:
>I have purchased some bulbs from Walmart - Aponogeton Ulvaceus - Hybrid.
>My question is, how do I take care of them.  I have looked in two plant books
>which describe only the true species, stating only that hybrids are easier to
>grow.  I remember a while back someone had a discussion about these bulbs, so
>if you could be so kind and post/e-mail some info. Thanks.
First of all, don't buy any more. The hybrids are not very log lived.

Now, what I have had success with is two techniques: 1) stick it
in the gravel, leave it alone, and 2) place some garden dirt in
a shallow disk, put gravel over it, and stick the bulb in it.

It'll start throwing leaves like craze if the light is good enough
and possibly even flower. If you have a couple of them you might
get viable seeds, although the young plants are very tender
and a pain to raise. The plant will probably go dormant after this
and you could rip it out and put it in cool dark peat for 6 weeks and
try to grow it again, but unless the corm is larger than it was
when you bought it (indicating it stored food, instead of using up
ll it's food) it won't work.

Some people have them simply keep throwing leaves.

Some of the hybrids (with some A. natans blood in their mesopyhll)
throw floating leaves. If this hppens rip it out and throw the
bloody thing away, other wise you'll soon have a plant with no
sumbersed leaves and a lot of floating leaves.

All the aponogetons bear seed, except for A. ``stachysporous'' which
may or may not be A. undulatus. It bears younf plants on the end
of it's "flowering" stalk. Mike Tdjkkshsd kjslkjski of Deleware
Aquatic imports regularly has these, and for my money they're
the coolest of the aponogetons becauae they can be reproduced so
eeaily.

Mike is the guy who has Aponogetons throwing leaves forever - they
don't seem to go dormant. He has to "rest" some species in dark
peat and has good luck, with only 50% success with A. madagascariensis
and about 10% with A. boivin-howeveryouspellit-us.

-- 
Richard J. Sexton                 ``More trees''
Toronto, CANADA                                    richard-at-panchax.gryphon.com

Aponogeton undulatus blooming

by bhaskar-at-bnr.ca (Shaji Bhaskar)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria

In article <36nm4e$mq1-at-geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>,
Peter Konshak <pkonshak-at-fiat.gslis.utexas.edu> wrote:
>I have five Aponogeton undulatus that are blooming.  I'd like to try 
>and get some seeds from them, but I can't find any help in the books
>that I have.  Are these flowers self-pollinating, or do I have to
>pollinate them myself with Q-tips or something?  Any help would be 
>appreciated.  For the curious, I purchased the bulbs from Wal-Mart, and
>was pleasantly surprised to acheive 100% germination (no, I don't work
>there).  Thanks,

In my experience, Aponogetons are very unpredictable as far as sexual
reproduction is concerned.  Some species are self-sterile (i.e., they
require a pollen from a different plant to produce seeds) and others
are self-pollinating even without Q-tips.  Some of the hybrids may not
reproduce sexually at all.

You cannot go wrong with cross-pollination using Q-tips (unless your
plants are not all the same species).  Once you have pollinated the
flowers, all you have to do is sit back and wait, and make sure the
heat from your lights doesn't burn the flowers.  The seeds develop
fairly rapidly, and mature in less than a month if I remember right.
They will fall to the aquarium gravel and germinate if they don't get
eaten by your fish.

The baby plants are very slow-growing.  Mine took about a year and a
half to reach adult size.

Shaji.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shaji Bhaskar                                             bhaskar-at-bnr.ca
BNR, Research Triangle Park, NC 27709, USA                (919) 991 7125

Blooming Aponogetons notes

by pkonshak-at-fiat.gslis.utexas.edu (Peter Konshak)
Date: 7 Nov 1994
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria

I posted about a month ago that I had several A. undulatus blooming, and 
was curious about whether I needed to pollinate them myself or not.  I 
received few replies, so I thought I'd share my observations.

The Aponogeton undulatus (I think) were purchased at Wal-Mart, they were 
packaged as about six dry bulbs.  After sinking them in a tank, they took 
about a week to all germinate.  The tank is a 29 gallon tank with 
Texblast substrate (no laterite).  It receives about 75 watts of light 
for 14 hours a day.  There is no heater, temp averages 76F.  I am using a 
Narten type DIY CO2 injection system, which brings the pH down to about 
6.4, but it varies with the freshness of the yeast/sugar culture.  The 
lone inhabitant is a female swordtail, which has not been fed in 3 
months.  Other plants include Hygrophilia polysperma, Hygrophilia 
augustifolia, Ludwigia repens, Cryptocoryne wendtii, Cryptocoryne 
becketti, and some loosestrife.  The only filtration is a Penguin 550 
powerhead with a sponge filter attached.  Water changes are performed 
every 2 weeks.  No fertilizer is added.

The Aponogetons experienced phenomenal growth in the first few weeks, 
during which they sent up a stalk, containing small white flowers.  The 
water level of the tank is about 2" below the rim, allowing room for the 
flowers.  Some of them also grew out of the tank at the back, where there 
is a 1" wide space.  I did not attempt to manually fertilize the flowers, 
letting nature take its course.

After a couple weeks, I noticed some seeds growing on the stalks.  These 
started out quite small, but matured to approximately the size of a piece 
of corn.  They are shaped similar to a peice of corn, but have a more 
pointed end, like a dewdrop.  They are a deep green in color.  These 
seeds have now fallen off the flowering stalks, and have rooted 
themselves in the substrate.  They are also producing leaves quickly.

I now have more Aponogetons than I want.  Apparently not everything you 
buy in the Wal-Mart pet department is crap.

Peter  


------------------------------
Peter Konshak
pkonshak-at-fiat.gslis.utexas.edu
------------------------------

Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #28

by HoeschB-at-mail.fws.gov
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95

     

     
>From: Jeff Stuart <jastuart-at-mailbox.syr.edu> 
>Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 11:16:50 -0400 (EDT) 
>Subject: A few questions...
     
>Lastly, I've got an Aponogeton ulvaceous that just finished blooming, and 
>seems to be declining -- perhaps going into dormancy.  The leaves are 
>turning a bit brown and looking more ragged, and new growth has slowed.  
>I recently attended a lecture on growing aquatic plants, and it was 
>suggested that Aponogetons be put in a plastic bag with a little water in 
>the vegie crisper for 6-8 weeks to force dormancy, and then re-planted. 
>The bulb is nice and firm, and there are a lot of nice white roots.  Has 
>anyone tried this? 
     
I got this same advice from the people at Bay Area Aquatic 
Plants...After my A. ulvaceus bloomed several times I put it to 
bed in damp sand, in a closed jar, in the fridge, for about 3 
months.  Next time I looked at it, it had decomposed.  Don't know 
why this happened, so I'd like to hear more on this thread.

Bob Hoesch
HoeschB-at-fws.gov

Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #34

by Erik Olson <(e-mail)>
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995/1996

Bob Hoesch wrote:

> I got this same advice from the people at Bay Area Aquatic 
> Plants...After my A. ulvaceus bloomed several times I put it to 
> bed in damp sand, in a closed jar, in the fridge, for about 3 
> months.  Next time I looked at it, it had decomposed.  Don't know 
> why this happened, so I'd like to hear more on this thread.

Me too!  I stuck some Aponogeton X bulbs in the fridge, and zappo.  
Three months later, sludge.  I'm guessing it was either too cold, or too 
long a rest period.

    - Erik

- ---
Erik D. Olson                           E-mail-o-meter:
(e-mail)               it's back up!

Aponogeton dormancy

by Jeff Stuart <jastuart-at-mailbox.syr.edu>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995

Thanks to all of you who replied.  The advice to put the Aponogeton bulb 
in the vegie crisper was given by Dorothy Reimer of the Aquatic 
Gardener's Association, when she gave a lecture at the local aquarium 
society.  She said to put it in a zip-lock bag with about a tablespoon of 
water, and leave it in the crisper for 6-8 weeks.  She didn't say 
anything about changing the water occasionally, but I think that may be a 
good idea.  Perhaps those whose bulbs rotted left them in for too long.  
I'm going to give this a try, and I'll report back (6 weeks from now...) 
on the results.

Jeff
_______________________________________________________________________________
Jeff Stuart                                             
103 Bristol Place                                       (315) 471-1404
Syracuse NY 13210-2511                          jastuart-at-rodan.syr.edu
_______________________________________________________________________________

Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #36

by Patrick White <patbob-at-sequent.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995

> From: Jeff Stuart <jastuart-at-mailbox.syr.edu>
> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:26:53 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Aponogeton dormancy
>
> Thanks to all of you who replied.  The advice to put the Aponogeton bulb 
> in the vegie crisper was given by Dorothy Reimer of the Aquatic 
> Gardener's Association, when she gave a lecture at the local aquarium 
> society.  She said to put it in a zip-lock bag with about a tablespoon of 
> water, and leave it in the crisper for 6-8 weeks.  She didn't say 
> anything about changing the water occasionally, but I think that may be a 
> good idea.  Perhaps those whose bulbs rotted left them in for too long.  
> I'm going to give this a try, and I'll report back (6 weeks from now...) 
> on the results.

        If the bulb is going anarobic inside the baggie, you could try
perforating it with a pin to make some air holes.  We just recently got some
vegie crisper ziplock baggies in the mail that were just like this (maybe
we're a test market for them or something).  The holes were at the cornices of
a 1" grid in case anyone cares.
        At the 40F in the refrigerator, nothing is probably going to use much
O2 so probably only need a few holes.

[P] Apongeton seeds

by fishman-at-cybernetics.net (Ronald J- Belliveau SLIP)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria

Hi Mike,

Sure didn't take you long to go from the planning stage (or is that planting 
stage) to mature plants w/seed production!  Glad to hear its working out.

Most of my Aponogeton seeds germinated while they were still laying in the
floating plants at the water's surface.  Some sprouted roots and leaves while
still floating but most sank to the bottom after the leaves started coming out.
For the first 30 or 40 plantlets, I carefully tucked the roots into the 
substrate when they were about 3/4 to 1" long.  Have since found that to be
unnecessary.  The young plants seem to take hold where ever they touch 
down.  I have a couple that are now growing out of the cracks in a piece of 
African root.  Some of the original baby plants are now as big as the parent
plants and are almost 2 yrs old.

Good luck! (hope to see you at the meeting on 4/8/95)
Ron 

In article <3lp4crINN1nr-at-bear.dsinc.com> mike-at-bear.dsinc.com (Michael 
Kondratovich) writes:>From: mike-at-bear.dsinc.com (Michael Kondratovich)
>Subject: [P] Apongeton seeds
>Date: 3 Apr 1995 11:31:39 -0400
>Keywords: Plant, Apongeton

>Well, I set up a low-tech 20L plant tank to test some of the knowledge
>that I've gained from the *.aquaria news groups. I decided to start with
>a few Apongetons, "Miracle bulbs" is the common name around here, since
>I've always had the best luck with them in the past. One of them has put
>up five flowering stalks, and I've got guite a few seeds developing.
>What is the best way of getting the seeds to germinate and grow?

>I have been unable to identify the species, I have at least three
>different kinds in the tank. Of the three it has the darkest green,
>thinnest, and most wrinkled leaves. Since it is the only plant that has
>put up flowers I would say that it is self-pollinating :-). I apologize
>for such a terse description, but as I have rarely had much with planted
>tanks I'm not that familiar with how to distinguish one species from
>another.

>I've looked through all the books I have on aquarium plants and haven't
>found a picture that is close enough to make a definite choice. The
>comments in those books make it sound like growing these plants from
>seeds is "almost impossible". That would make it "finitely possible".
>How fine is finite in this case?

>In the mean time, I've let the seeds that fall into the tank remain
>there, and the seeds that fall on the floor I've simply collected and am
>keeping dry. Has anyone had success with other options?

>I humbly await the 'nets wisdom.

>--
>Michael Kondratovich                     mike-at-dsinc.com
>Decision Support Inc.                    voice: (704) 847-8904
>Matthews, NC 28106                       fax:   (704) 847-4875
>-- 

>Michael Kondratovich                     mike-at-dsinc.com
>Decision Support Inc.                    voice: (704) 847-8904
>Matthews, NC 28106                       fax:   (704) 847-4875

Ron Belliveau                  "I have fishes, therefore,
fishman-at-cybernetics.net                  I am!"

[P] Apongeton seeds

by pkonshak-at-fiat.gslis.utexas.edu (Peter Konshak)
Date: 3 Apr 1995
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria

Michael Kondratovich (mike-at-bear.dsinc.com) wrote:
> Well, I set up a low-tech 20L plant tank to test some of the knowledge
> that I've gained from the *.aquaria news groups. I decided to start with
> a few Apongetons, "Miracle bulbs" is the common name around here, since
> I've always had the best luck with them in the past. One of them has put
> up five flowering stalks, and I've got guite a few seeds developing.
> What is the best way of getting the seeds to germinate and grow?

> I have been unable to identify the species, I have at least three
> different kinds in the tank. Of the three it has the darkest green,
> thinnest, and most wrinkled leaves. Since it is the only plant that has
> put up flowers I would say that it is self-pollinating :-). I apologize
> for such a terse description, but as I have rarely had much with planted
> tanks I'm not that familiar with how to distinguish one species from
> another.

> I've looked through all the books I have on aquarium plants and haven't
> found a picture that is close enough to make a definite choice. The
> comments in those books make it sound like growing these plants from
> seeds is "almost impossible". That would make it "finitely possible".
> How fine is finite in this case?

> In the mean time, I've let the seeds that fall into the tank remain
> there, and the seeds that fall on the floor I've simply collected and am
> keeping dry. Has anyone had success with other options?

Michael,

I let all my seeds fall into the water.  They sprouted, but tend to grow 
very slowly.  I was able to raise quite a few to a nice size, so I guess 
that it isn't "impossible" to do.  I'm not sure how long seeds will 
remain viable when kept dry.

Peter

------------------------------
Peter Konshak
pkonshak-at-fiat.gslis.utexas.edu
------------------------------

Apon. seeds

by gomberg-at-wcf.com (Dave Gomberg)
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95

My inflourescence developed seeds despite laying in the water at the surface. 
When quite a number of seed pods appeared, I just cut it off and kept it in a
glass of the same water.  Every day 10 or so seed pods would burst and release
one seed.  I gathered the seeds and planted them in fine sand.  We will see how
this works out.  Mail me if you want notes on my apon. hatchery for the seeds. 
 Dave

Dave Gomberg, Experimenta      San Francisco CA USA   gomberg-at-wcf.com

Apon. seeds

by George Booth <booth-at-hpmtlgb1.lvld.hp.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995

> From: stevensj-at-calshp.cals.wisc.edu
> 
> Did you do anything special to your flower stalk?  E.g. brush it, let
> insects fly around it?  I've had several flower stalks come off my
> Apon. crispus but nothings ever developed - what's the secret?

When the flowers bloom, take a soft paint brush or makeup brush and 
spread the pollen around.  Don't forget to say "bee-bee-bee-bee" while
you do it or it won't work <g>.

George

Aquatic Plants Digest V1 #28

by TYELLA-at-aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995

>From: Thomas Price <tprice-at-u.washington.edu>
>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:01:11 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: A. Crispus flower spike
>In a message dated 95-10-23 15:52:23 EDT, you write:
                    <snip>
>After a couple of weeks it died (the flower spike).  The 
>second one I let get out (my top covers the top of the tank pretty well) 
>with similar results.  The third is going now, and looks just like the
first.
>
>How do I get seeds?  Does the flower spike need to be in the light?  I 
>can let it stick out above the water, but then it will be above the 
>light, as well.  Should I lower the water and let the spike become 
>emersed beneath the glass?  Also, I am having some trouble figuring out 
>when to pollinate the flowers with a small paintbrush.  The end stage for 
>all of my flower spikes has been when the white tip develops a regular 
>pattern of rough places, which I think want to be flowers.
                          <snip>
        My crispus flowered recently and I did nothing to help save pulling
the flower up behind the lights so it could emerge.  It eventually plopped
back into the water anyway.  I think that you may have had pollinated
flowers, but you didn't let them develop.  When the inflorescense is white it
has flowered (I believe).  Mine developed the green bumps (young fruit) just
like yours and eventually the green turned into a brown skin which surrounded
a seed.  The stem and everything started to decay.  Someone wrote that if you
cut the stalk off at this point and put it in some water the seeds will
develop. I just let mine go until the bumps (now fatter) opened up their
brown skins and spat out their seeds.  
       I think that you are on the right track, but need to let the plant do
its thing.   By the way, my plantlets are doing fine and seem to benefit from
being placed into the substrate about 1/8 inch (I'm trying to be metric, but
its hard) or 3mm(?).

A. crispus flower spike

by krandall-at-world.std.com (Karen A Randall)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995

Subject: A. Crispus flower spike

Tom,
 
> My A. crispus has put up three flower spikes over the last two m
> Although the plant seems healthy, I haven't had any seeds develo

Not all Aponogetons are self-fertile.  I suspect that yours is one 
of the ones that is not.  Seed production with a self-fertile 
plant is easy enough that it often happens without any help from 
the aquarist.

Karen Randall
Aquatic Gardeners Assoc.
Boston, MA

Aquatic Plants Digest V2 #88

by krombhol-at-felix.TECLink.Net (Paul Krombholz)
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996

Stephen.Pushak-at-saudan.HAC.COM  wrote, Tuesday, May 21:

.......<snipped>......... What's the scoop on GBA in Canada? It would appear
to >be available in the US. I figured it might be useful for recalcitrant
>Aponogeton tubers.     Honestly! ;-)
>
I have found that dormant Aponogeton tubers can be stimulated to grow by
putting them in very low light (ordinary room light, about 20 foot candles)
for two weeks, and then returning them to high light.  It worked for me
with a bunch of dormant A. undulatus tubers.


Paul Krombholz                  Tougaloo College, Tougaloo, MS  39174
In hot, humid Mississippi where some of your nice, cool Canadian air,
Stephen and Olga, would be most appreciated now.

Growing Aponogetons from seeds

by "Dave Gomberg" <gomberg-at-wcf.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 96

I just had another Apon. crispus? flower and set seeds.  This time I
removed the stalk from the plant and kept it in a glass of water as
soon as the ovaries started swelling.  When the seeds were released,
they dropped to the bottom of the glass and started to sprout.   I
rinsed them free of all the junk, placed them in the bottom of a
glass, filled the glass with tank water, lowered it to the bottom of
the tank, and quickly inverted it (bottoms up).  I pushed the open
mouth of the glass into the gravel a bit.  The seeds fell down to the
gravel.   Two weeks later they are growing well!   Looks like this
system works and prevents seedling damage by snails and fish.    
Dave

Dave Gomberg, Experimenta      San Francisco CA USA   gomberg-at-wcf.com

Madagascar lace plant blooming

by krombhol-at-felix.TECLink.Net (Paul Krombholz)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996

Todd March, Aug. 9, had questions about what to do with his lace plant
flowers.

If the flowers have two white or yellow-white spikes, Your Madagascar lace
plant is  A. madagascariensis or A. henkelianus.  If they have five pink
spikes the plant is A. guillotii.  From my experience, A. guilotii is
self-sterile, but A. madagascariensis is self-fertile.  Probably A.
henkelianus is self-fertile, also, but I haven't had experience with it.
The flowers can be fertilized by rubbing a fine brush, such as a paint
brush for water color paints over the spikes, spreading the pollen around.
Seeds will grow relatively quickly, and will be released in a few weeks.
They float for a few days, and then the seedling is dropped and is ready to
plant.  Seedlings should be planted in sand that has a small amount of
subsoil (low in organic matter) mixed in.  The young seedlings should be
given good light and CO2.  The seedlings seem to do better if there are
some small plants of another species present.  These plants should not be
allowed to crowd out or shade out the lace plant seedlings.  Small crypts
or Lilaeopsis would be good.

Paul Krombholz                  Tougaloo College, Tougaloo, MS  39174
In steamy Mississippi.

Aponogeton crispus flowering

by pitney/alecto.physics.uiuc.edu (John Pitney)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998

I'm not sure if it's been posted here, but I read somewhere that having
the lights go out for an hour or so in the afternoon stimulates 
flowering in A. crispus.  

This has been my experience as well--both times I experimented with 
the "afternoon thunderstorm simulation" my A. crispus flowered within a
week or two.  

 John Pitney         pitney-at-uiuc.edu             
 http://www.physics.uiuc.edu/~pitney            

substrate for Aponogeton rigidifolius

by Stephen Pushak <teban/powersonic.bc.ca>
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998

Susan Romano asked about the proper substrate for Aponogeton
rigidifolius. 

I claim no expertise with Aponogetons but I have pretty good success
with A crispus. The prevailing opinion is that Aponogetons generally do
not have thick root systems and are not well adapted to organic
(reducing) substrates. Avoid peat and other organic materials as well as
strong concentrations of substrate fertilizer which could burn the roots
ESPECIALLY during the early phases before the plant has had a chance to
establish itself. 
I try to leave my Aponogetons alone once I've planted them. None of them
respond well if moved and this can be enough to severely set back A
madagascariensis. My current substrates and tank temps do not lend
themselves to Aponogetons. When I have room for more aquariums, I'd like
to try dedicating a cool water tank for lace plants.

Windelov's Tropica Catalogue, Aquarium Plants, A Complete Introduction
(t.f.h) by Holger Windelov & Jiri Stodola says:

"The ecological conditions under which the Aponogeton species live are
very interesting. First of all they demand soft water without calcium,
mildly acid and frequently changed. ... The pH value should be 7.0-8.0,
hardness 3-5 DH.

"Plant the thick tuberous rootstock not too deeply in a mixture of 1/3
rough unwashed sand without any calcium content, 1/3 charcoal, and 1/3
aged clay. It is necessary to add dried balls of clay under the roots
during the vegetative period when leaves fully develop. The treatment of
the tuberous rootstock is also important when transplanting. It should
be soft and not foul, and the softly concave middle should not be fully
covered with sand."

The statement "without calcium" is probably an exaggeration. All plants
require calcium in order to fulfil their tissue requirements. In some
situations such as here in Vancouver, our water truly has no calcium and
we need to add it to achieve 3-5 DH.

Good luck Susan! I like Aponogetons. One is trying to take over my 75
gallon tank now.

Steve P.

flowering plant

by Raj <ggrk/blr.vsnl.net.in>
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998

> From: Steve Pushak <teban@powersonic.bc.ca>
> Subject: Re: flowering plant
>
> I've had A crispus flower and set seed several times. What works best
> for me is if I just ignore the flower and let it float along the surface
> of the water. If it gets out onto the edge, the stem often gets damaged
> and thats the end of it but if it floats, it often bends so that the
> flowers are above the water. Ignore it for a week or so and seeds form
> along the stem. When they are about the 4-5 mm in length, they will

> eventually sprout roots and leaves. Stick it into an aquarium where the
> fish won't disturb it and it will root and begin growing. You'll need to
> plant it as it floats around for a long time.

When they are about 4-5mm in length they detatch from the stem and float
away in a white fleshy jacket. Within a day the jacket slips off and the seedling
*sinks* to the susbtrate. At this point in time it resembles a green pod with two
leaves. After a few days a root strand will develop and anchor the seedling.
You will see new "crispy" leaves after a couple of weeks.

This method of dispersion is very effective in natural environments.
A single plant has colonised a 200 SqM pond in about a year.

- --
Raj
Bangalore, South India
http://members.xoom.com/ggrk/

Crispus and CO2 longevity

by Alysoun McLaughlin & Andrew Blumhagen <alysoun/patriot.net>
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998

I've had A. crispus for about a year and a half.  It was constantly
sending up spikes, even sending up two spikes at once, until I finally
let it seed.  The seed developed and sprouted right on the flower, and
the seed never dropped off.  The mother plant then went very quiet,
although it continues to send up replacement leaves (still hasn't sent
up another spike, and it's probably been six months by now).

Rather than try to separate the seed from the stalk, I snipped off a
section and planted it.  The stalk disintegrated, and the tiny crispus
masqueraded as dwarf sag for six months -- in fact, when I transferred
all the plants to a larger tank, I studied each small piece of sag
carefully to try and find the crispus.  I couldn't find it, and assumed
I'd buried and killed it.

Sure enough, though, within a week of adding CO2 to the tank, a crispus
sprouted out of the sag patch.  It's growing quickly.

- ---------

CO2 question -- 

What's the longest anyone's gotten a 2 liter DIY setup to last?  I
thought it was only supposed to last about 3 weeks or so, but my first
bottle is still visibly bubbling away, and it's been about six weeks... 

It's sitting directly on top of the tank, so perhaps the heat from the
lights has helped its longevity?  

Alysoun McLaughlin

Aponogetons

by Ed Hengel <hengel/computer.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998

I've been haphazardly hybridizing Aponogetons for quite some time just
to see what develops.  Being that much of what is in the trade are
hybrids themselves it didn't seem to matter much which species were
cross pollinated.  That being said what I started out with looked a lot
like A. rigidifolius, A. crispus, A. natans and A. ulvaceus.  

Several viable varieties developed, the most interesting being a plant
that has the wide wavy leaves of A. ulvaceus.  The foliage is mostly the
color of the reddish leaves of A. rigidifolius, illustrated on page 57
of Windelov's Tropica Catalogue Aquarium Plants, 1987, T.F.H.
Publications, Inc.  The color, shape and size of the plant I describe,
although somewhat striking, is not it's most interesting aspect.  

The plant puts up a one-spiked inflorescence, of which there are now two
breaching the surface, one has white flowers and the other beautiful
purple ones.  I have not heard of, read or seen anything like it, one
Aponogeton with two different colored flowers.  The plant was moved to
it's present location about a month ago, however I don't remember the
exact type of root stock it has, but when the plant once again goes
dormant, although all the leaves look pretty much the same and I'm
pretty sure it is a single plant, I'll double check to see if there is
more than one plant there.

Who else but all of you would find this interesting.  My family,
especially the children, think my enthusiasm for such an observation is
somewhat misplaced.  In other words, the kids think I'm nuts <G>. 

Ed Hengel
AGA

Aquatic Plants Digest V3 #696

by Ed Hengel <hengel/computer.net>
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998

Karen wrote:

> Thanks for the input, Ed.  I'm interested to hear of your crosses.  I think
> you've mentioned them before, but I have to admit that it went in on ear
> (eye?<g>) and out the other because I haven't worked much with Aponos for a
> number of years. (so many plants...so little tank space<sigh>)
> 
> Do your hybrids have tubers like the crispus parent or a rhizome like the
> rigidifolia?  My plant has a definite rhizome, with leaves spread along the
> length.  Like other rhizome plants, new leaves tend to come on the growing
> ends of the rhizome.

What I believe to be the A. rigidifolius - A. crispus cross has a very
small thin rhizome, looks like a short piece of stick.  However,
although the leaves are long and many, it is still a young plant so it
may be too soon to tell what the root stock will eventually look like,
it could be the beginnings of a tuber .  There is, growing next to it, a
plant about the same age, that looks like an A. crispus - A. ulvaceus
cross with long, wider leaves that are also at the top of the tank, that
has not as yet developed a bulb _or_ rhizome, just a large root mass.

The plant that puts up the two different colored flowers, white and
purple, with the wide, dark green to reddish brown, slightly undulating,
long leaves has a round bulb.

There is one other plant probably an A. ulvaceus cross that has a large
tuber. It recently came out of dormancy putting up a lot of
inflorescence, but little in the way of leaves until I pulled the tuber
up toward the surface of the gravel, now it has begun to put up short,
wide, light green leaves, that if memory serves will start to take over
that end of the tank <g>.  The plant described above, with the purple
flowers, also recently emerged from dormancy.

> As I mentioned in my last post, the information in various books is very
> variable.  One source said that sexual propagation was "hardly possible".
> Maybe you're having better luck because yours _is_ a hybrid. 

Probably.  I don't think I can say for sure if i've ever had a non
hybridized Aponogeton.

>The one thing that all seem to agree on is that it doesn't undergo a rest period >the way most non-hybridized tuber growing Aponos do.

That also seems to be the case with the A. rigidifolius hybrid described
above.  It has been growing for well more than a year and has yet to go
dormant.  But I understand that is not uncommon for the Apons we usually
see due to the unnatural selection pressure of the aquarium trade.
 
> One thing I can already say is that this is going to be one massive plant.
> The new leaves are already at the top of my 70G tank.

Like I said, I end up giving them away <G>. The last one was to our
annual auction where the auctioneer put a tape measure to it for
emphasis.<G>

Ed Hengel
AGA

Aponogeton Rigidifolia

by Ed Hengel <hengel/computer.net>
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998

> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 11:15:12 -0500
> From: krandall@world.std.com
> Subject: Aponogeton Rigidifolia
> 
> Has anyone on the list had much experience with this plant?  I found some
> when I was speaking in Maryland last month and brought it home, although
> from what I read, it sounded like it might be a difficult plant.  The
> "requirements" listed in various sources vary enormously for this plant.
> 
> So far, mine seems to be doing well.  The leaves that it has grown since
> being placed in my tank are at least twice the size of the originals, and
> it is adding more leaves regularly.  Has anyone kept it successfully long
> term?  If so, what were your conditions, and observations of the plant.
> 
> Karen Randall
> Aquatic Gardeners Association

I've been growing A. rigidifolius or a closely related crispus hybrid,
as well as several other A. sp, for a couple of years in my discus
tanks. (very soft, acidic, still water, temp 85) In the tank that they
do best, the plant seems to prefer being off to the side (not directly
under the lights).  The 2 year old substrate around the plant is plain
#2 gravel and the plants are surounded by E. tenelus, however there are
Duplarit K balls under several nearby larger Echinodorus species.  The
plant doesn't seem to have a dormant period where all the leaves die
back like the other Aponogetons (this may be due to hybridizing) but it
does have growth spurts. This is when they usually get to big for the
tank (33 gal. flat back hex)and are donated to the club auction.  The
plant grows long, narrow, green, slightly undulating 20+" leaves that
sometimes get translucent patches along the leaf margins and also
sometimes get a little spotty (presumably when they are not thrilled
with what's going on around them.)  They put up a single white
inflorescence.  The ones I now have were grown from seeds.  I've done a
lot of cross pollinating with these plants and give the larger plants
away, so I cannot attest to exactly what percent of the plant is
rigidifolius but at least one of them still looks a lot like and fits
the description of most of the ones pictured and described in the
books.  Hope this helps.

Ed Hengel
AGA


End of Aquatic Plants Digest V3 #695
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A. natans

by krandall/world.std.com
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999

>Initially my Aponogeton Nantans grew very large submersed leaves and 
>and flowered and looked great. Now all it wants to do is send up 
>leaves to the surface. Is this normal for this plant? 

Absolutely.

>If I would cut 
>off the shoots before they get to the surface will it start growing 
>new submersed leaves? Some of the old ones are starting to die off 
>and I would like some new under water growth.

Nope.  It is a mostly floating leafed plant.

A. natans has been very useful in producing hardy Aponogeton hybrids for
the aquarium trade.  It is a very sturdy species, and less prone to need
dormant periods than many others.  But in and of itself, it's not the most
decorative aquarium plant, as most of the under water growth is just a
bunch of stems heading for the surface.  It can quickly block all light to
plants below as it spreads its vigorous leaves out on the surface as well.  

Karen

Madagascar lace plant

by krombhol/teclink.net (Paul Krombholz)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000

It is currently in style to lump all the madagascar lace plants together
into one species, Aponogeton madagascariensis, but there is one variety
that is quite different from the others.  It is a lot bigger, and its
leaves are longer and narrower.  It has pink flowers with five spikes,
instead of the two spikes of other varieties.  In addition, it does not
self-fertilize, whereas the other varieties I have had experience with
easily self-fertilize.  The flowers have stems that are 1.5 to 2.0 cm in
diameter.  When I had a plant of this speices, which Muhlberg, in The
Complete Guide to Water Plants, classifies as Aponogeton guillotii, it got
too large for my 75 gallon aquarium.

Propagating aponogeton

by Raj <ggrk/blr.vsnl.net.in>
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000

> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 12:49:13 EDT
> From: Biplane10@aol.com
> Subject: Propagating aponogeton

> One of my aponogeton plants has produced a flower stalk.

> Is this plant self fertilizing? How would I go about attempting to propagate?

I got seeds only when I rubbed two flowers together to
pollinate.

- -- 
Raj, vu2zap
Bangalore, South India
http://members.xoom.com/ggrk/

mail order plants

by "Robert H" <robertpaulh/earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000

>>I called and made a second order.  I was told they don't garantee plants,
but he went ahead and sent some more bulbs to replace the dead ones I
received.  The replacement bulbs must have been from the same batch as they
were also dead.<<

Anytime you purchase aponogeton or barclaya bulbs, its a crap shoot as to
how many will germinate. It doesnt matter where you buy them from, a store
or mail order. When you purchase the apon bulb assortment packs at one of
the better known super pet stores, you are lucky if half of them germinate.
For every 50 bulbs I buy, 20% never germinate. Its about the same for
outdoor garden bulbs. If you are going to buy them, buy more than you
actually need, or buy bulbs with growth already started. So your experience
with AZ Gardens is nothing out of the ordinary.

Robert Paul H
http://www.aquabotanic.com

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