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Plants for the Acidic Tank

Contents:

  1. re:Acid tolerant plants
    by Ed Hengel <hengel/computer.net> (Sat, 24 Oct 1998)
  2. Discus in planted tanks
    by krandall/world.std.com (Sun, 07 Mar 1999)
  3. RE:Discus & Planted Tanks
    by "Peter W O'Dwyer jnr" <odwyerpw/francomm.com> (Sun, 7 Mar 1999)
  4. Discus & Planted Tanks
    by Raj <ggrk/blr.vsnl.net.in> (Mon, 08 Mar 1999)
  5. RE: Discus & Planted Tanks
    by stalan/ix.netcom.com (Sun, 07 Mar 1999)
  6. Discus and planted tanks.
    by "Colin Anderson" <colin_d_anderson/hotmail.com> (Mon, 08 Mar 1999)
  7. Discus and planted tanks.
    by "Wood, Tom" <Tom.Wood/ci.austin.tx.us> (Mon, 8 Mar 1999)
  8. Discus and Planted tanks
    by Dennis8425/aol.com (Tue, 9 Mar 1999)

re:Acid tolerant plants

by Ed Hengel <hengel/computer.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998

>Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 19:13:46 -0700
>From: Dave Gomberg <gomberg@wcf.com>
>Subject: Acid tolerant plants

>What would you recommend as an acid water plant (pH<6)?

- - --
>Dave Gomberg, San Francisco            mailto:gomberg@wcf.com
>http://www.wcf.com/wcf

I have a tank set up for discus with a pH often <6 and temps >85, water
is soft, reconstituted R.O..  Most Echinodorus Sp. grow well also Rotala
macrandra, R. wallichii, hygrophila difformis, Cabomba caroliniana, many
aponogeton sp. (mostly crispus, rigidifolius and ulvaceus hybrids).

Anubias sp. and Vallisneria sp. do OK but not great. The ferns: Bolbitis
heudelotii and Microsorium pteropus not at all.  I've also had no luck i
n that tank with Hygrophila sp. other than difformis.

Problematic plants could be so due to parameters other than pH.

Ed Hengel
AGA

Discus in planted tanks

by krandall/world.std.com
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999

>For anyone who keeps Discus in a fully planted setup - how crutial do you
>think it is to keep the fish around 86F ? I have currently been keeping my
>temperatures around the 79-80F mark to give the plants an easier time, and
>me.

That's a little cool, in my experience.  My discus always looked distressed
if the temp dropped as low as 80F.  But they didn't need it at 86F either.
I kept them at about 82F, and they did great.  Ate well, grew well, and
were never sick a day in their lives.  The plants do fine at that temp too,
as long as you feed them well and supply plenty of light and CO2.

Karen


RE:Discus & Planted Tanks

by "Peter W O'Dwyer jnr" <odwyerpw/francomm.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999

I don't think 86 degF is so important. I strive for 84 degF. However, 79
degF is too low. I had tried 80-82 degF for a while and found the Discus
suffered, albiet over some time.  Moving ailing Discus to a Hospital tank w/
equivalent Hardness & pH but higher temp (86 degF) would bring them back to
good health, ie good color, not spooky, not logey. Some Discus keepers
actually keep them at 90 degF for two week periods when they show signs of
illness, not me.

I am considering moving the Discus out and trying Altums so that I can lower
the temp and try a wider variety of plants. Want to build that ph Controller
first so that I can lower the pH for the Altums first. Contact Horizon
Growers, they have a Discus Mix, a collection of high temp tolerant plants,
I found that about 1/3 of them melted away eventually.  However, that may be
attributed to my very poorly developed early plant keeping skills.  I am now
just slightly incompetent.

Peter W O'Dwyer jnr
odwyerpw@bluecorp.com


Discus & Planted Tanks

by Raj <ggrk/blr.vsnl.net.in>
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999

> Aquatic Plants Digest      Sunday, March 7 1999      Volume 03 : Number 891
> From: "A M Moore" <andy@ascot.u-net.com>
> Subject: Discus & Planted Tanks
>
> For anyone who keeps Discus in a fully planted setup - how crutial do you
> think it is to keep the fish around 86F ? I have currently been keeping my
> temperatures around the 79-80F mark to give the plants an easier time, and me.

The minimum temperature set in my planted tank with Discus is 75F, Any
lower
and they seem uncomfortable and break out into spots. You could
condition them
to lower and lower temperatures slowly over weeks/months till you reach
the target.

- --
Raj, vu2zap
Bangalore, South India
http://members.xoom.com/ggrk/


RE: Discus & Planted Tanks

by stalan/ix.netcom.com
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999

IMO - it's not _critical_ to maintain discus at 86-88F (constant) in
a planted aqua-box.  I've tried, and with all the incantations, CO2,
MH lights, nutrients, et al, the plants just don't do well.  Of course,
this is < my > experience.

I've kept discus in planted aquaria for awhile, ?circa '85?... Had been
the "bare"-box before that.  If your discus (and plants) are happy at
79-80F and you haven't any problems, I couldn't suggest you change that
which is successful.  < I > maintain their (discus and plants) home at
83-84F.  < My > experience with symphysodon is that temps lower than
82F (constant) invite (eventually) _those_ discus specific problems.

Here is what has proven successful for me (sorry for all the me's and
I's) ;-)

1) Put fully grown adults into an established planted aqua-box, (or for
a new system after <minimum> 12 - 14 weeks) preferably those which you
have raised in the "bare"-box (it's the _easiest_ way to get babies to a
large size - heavy feeding and water changes); OR if you acquire adults,
<<most definitely>> quarantine (as well as any fish previous to the
discus).  Then hope that they don't decide to get <cozy> and make more
discus (which leads to #2)...

2) If you're interested in breeding the discus, < IMO > forget about
it in a _lush_ planted aquarium, unless you've got lot's of time to
spend with them.  <<Lot's>>... (but then, raising a discus spawn means
a big time commitment anyway)...

3) Plant robust plants in one area of the aqua where the discus are fed.
When they go scavenging for more food on the bottom they will plow down
any fragile plants to get their dinner (lunch, breakfast) - they _do_
like to eat, pigs that they are...

4) Strong light and CO2 help balance the higher temperature for the
plants.  84-85F is the highest < I've > had success with (occasionally
higher, but not prolonged).

5) Choose co-inhabitants carefully.

6) Enjoy the discus in their planted home, they certainly will...

I like to give friends interested in discus and planted aquaria an
excellent little book: "Discus Fish" by Thomas Giovanetti, published
by Barron's.

How about DiscusL?  http://world.std.com/~enjolras/discus-l.html

Scott Davis
Austin, Texas
stalan@ix.netcom.com

"A M Moore" <andy@ascot.u-net.com> wrote:
> For anyone who keeps Discus in a fully planted setup - how crutial do
> you think it is to keep the fish around 86F ? I have currently been
> keeping my temperatures around the 79-80F mark to give the plants an
> easier time, and me.
> 
> Any constructive opinions welcome


Discus and planted tanks.

by "Colin Anderson" <colin_d_anderson/hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999

I've been lurking on the Discus-L list for about six months and have 
picked up a bit of 'knowledge' which may be relevant.  Most of the 
people who post frequently on Discus-L are breeders with good experience 
with fighting disease and maximizing growth.

Things I've learned,

1) 82 deg, is the point where Discus can fall victim to a number of 
different diseases, plain old ick is the main one.  Useful for all fish, 
ick problem, raise temp over 82!

2) It 'seems' that a good share of Discus will eventually need to be 
treated for some type of disease.  Usually this requires either high 
temp(over 90), or a medication which is harmful to plants.  This is what 
the 'hardcore' breeders use, patience may work in a lot of 
cases(*DANGER*personal bias*). 

3) To maximize growth you've got to feed high protien food at least 3 
times a day, if not 4-5 times.  If you've got an understocked tank you 
MAY be able to get away with it.  I do, but that's because I've got only 
1 4 inches who's growing great in a 33 gal.

4) Large, frequent water changes maximize growth, and are also very 
costly for fertilizer.  But, you'd never run out of micronutrient if you 
change water as often as Discus people do.  Any opinions on 
micronutrient fertilization by water change?

There's excellent disease and growth rate knowledge on the Discus-L 
list, give it a try.  But my experience is that there's not much talk of 
planted aquaria w/ discus.  Planted Discus tanks are a precarious 
balance, a step up from planted tanks in my opinion.

Colin Anderson
"waiting till he's sure he knows enough to convert his 135 to a planted 
discus tank"

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


Discus and planted tanks.

by "Wood, Tom" <Tom.Wood/ci.austin.tx.us>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999

I lurked the Discus-L group and researched their archives for info on this
subject.  I've also read and asked questions elsewhere. Once Discus hit
sexual maturity they stop adding body mass, so it's a race to grow them out
as quickly as possible if you want large fish.  To get Discus larger faster
requires lots of high-protein food and then frequent large water changes and
vacuuming to keep the wastes under control.  This leads to the preference
for bare bottom tanks among breeders since it makes maintenance easier. 
 
Then I posed the question to the Discus-L group as to whether it would be
possible to buy already grown-out Discus and place them in a planted tank
fed only with Tetra-Bits.  Most responses I received were from breeders who
insisted that Discus won't survive on Tetra-Bits alone.  Others indicated
that fully grown Discus don't ship well and don't adapt well to new
surroundings.  Any comments/experience?

Tom Wood


Discus and Planted tanks

by Dennis8425/aol.com
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999

In a message dated 3/9/1999 3:11:10 AM Central Standard Time, Aquatic-Plants-
Owner@actwin.com writes:

> Subject: Re: Discus and Planted Tanks
>  
>  Colin Anderson wrote:
>  
>  There's excellent disease and growth rate knowledge on the Discus-L list,
>  give it a try.  But my experience is that there's not much talk of planted
>  aquaria w/ discus.  Planted Discus tanks are a precarious
>  balance, a step up from planted tanks in my opinion.

I had some experience years back on this.  At the time all my tanks
were planted and my initial survival rate for store bought Discus was less
than 20% in 3 months.  Eventually I did get a breeding pair though and
had great luck with the fry.

The big thing is that Discus not only like soft acidic water but more
importantly
they do not like changes.  My success with the fry was in water at 5dDH and
7.0 pH.  If I could've maintained a lower pH my success with the store bought
Discus would have been much better probably.

My Discus never grew beyond 4 1/2 inches which many attribute to the fact 
that I did not do daily water changes for fear of upsetting the balance in the
aquarium.  I was doing about 10% water changes every 2 or 3 days.  The
plants also grew great in there tank and that was without CO2.

Dennis


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