by rs-at-reptiles.org (Richard Sexton)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 1994
Newsgroup: rec.gardens,rec.aquaria
In article <dpickereCs8388.GJI-at-netcom.com>,
Coastcom <dpickere-at-netcom.com> wrote:
>I'm converting a 100 gal aquarium into a half water/ half land vivarium.
>The environment will be quite moist, and critters splash quite a bit of water
>onto the land part, so I'd like to try bog plants in here.
>
>Does anyone know of some small plants I could raise in this environment
>that are available to me in California, local or mail order? Lighting
>will be medium to high. Flowering plants would be a plus.
Many of the plants sold as aquarium plants are *not* aquatic plants,
they are bog plants (most echinodorus - sword plants, and many of the
crytocorynes) while some arn't even bog plants. many aquarium stores
sell Dracena sandriana as an aquarium plant with the hideous
notion, ``it's cheap, when it dies in 2 or 3 months, buy another''.
Common plants sold as aquarium plants that arn't: "purple waffle",
"princess pine", "aluminum plant".
Semi-emersed plants which you really ought to give a try: Bolbitis species,
Java fern, Crypt. griffithi, C. affinis, C. purpurae, C. blassi.
None of these flower with things you would recognize as flowers. For
colour why not try the bromeliad Cryptanthus in one of the pink
or red morphs?
--
Richard J. Sexton Masonic order of the MANGO/Gryphon Gang North
rs-at-tuatara.reptiles.org richard-at-panchax.gryphon.com
by seales-at-aol.com (Seales)
Date: 29 Nov 1994
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria
In article <3bd19a$3pd-at-bcarh8ab.bnr.ca>, bhaskar-at-bnr.ca (Shaji Bhaskar)
writes:
>My personal test of what constitutes an aquatic plant is whether or
>not it can be propagated, either vegetatively or sexually, when
submerged.
Sounds like a good definition to me :)
>I've tried both Acorus and Ophiopogon, and they do nothing in my tank,
>although they may initially put out a few leaves. I strongly suspect
>that the pet store poaches them from the parking lot nearby :-).
Never thought to try ophiopogon... Have you tried Black Mondo grass?
Even if it would only *survive* (i.e. refrain from slowly rotting to bits)
, that could look very interesting.
>Could you tell me more about how you grow your Acorus, and what kind
>of results you get?
Why shore... I had a not at all optimum 20G (inadequate light, no
substrate heating cables, UGF - (my first tank - have mercy;)) and I had
Acorus gramineus 'pusillus' planted in some sandy soil topped with gravel
- in bonsai pots. In spite of a hair algae problem (such chagrin I felt
to later read here that I was *causing* it with my then-regular use of a
pHdown product), it grew beautifully - lots of new growth most of the
time, with leaves that were far longer than I'd seen terrestrially.
I grew the 'variegatus' also, but directly in the gravel. It was far less
successful, though after 10 months (the tank's torn down now, awaiting a
new incarnation) the roots were still ok, and there was some new growth
that was tiny & pale (I attribute this mainly to totally inadequate light
& feeding).
I'd like to try them again - perhaps a "cool" tank, certainly with plenty
of light. Being in pots seemed to suit them, so I think I'll continue
that. I like the Japanese garden look of pebble paths & tiny pots,
minnows levitating through it all...
Anne
by hardjono.harjadi-at-Eng.Sun.COM (Hardjono Harjadi)
Date: 25 Mar 1995
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria,alt.aquaria
Sometimes when you buy plants, they grow very well for several weeks/months
and then they die for no reason. One of the causes of this is that these plants could
be marsh plants. These plants would only grow under water for a period of time.
What if you really want these plants ? According to Dennerle's System for a problem-free
aquarium, you can grow them under water for a period of time. After that, they have to be
removed and grown emersed (part of the plants are outside of the water) before being put
back under the water. The book lists the time period that you can grow them under
the water but it does not mentioned how long they should be grown emersed before
putting them back under the water (Has anybody had any experiences doing this ?)
The following is the list of plants that are considered as marsh plants and their
submersed life period (quoted from System for a problem-free aquarium, Dennerle, 1993).
Some of the plants can survive under the water for up to a year so that's why sometimes
they are considered as aquatic plants.
Hardjono
Sci. name Common name Submersed duration
------------------------------------------------------------------
acorus gramineus japanese rush 12 months
ophiopogon japonicum fountain plant 12 months
ophiopogon kyoto dwarf fountain plant 12 months
peliosanthes spec - 6 months
aglaonema malayan sword 2-4 months
caladium bicolor - 1-2 months
chlorophytum bichetii pongol sword plant 2 months
cyperus alternifolius umbrella plant 2 months
dieffenbachia spec - 2-4 months
dracenae sanderiana stripped dragon plant 4 months
(sometimes sold as sugar cane plant)
dracenae deremensis green dragon plant 4 months
hemigraphis spec - 12 months
syngonium podophyllum stardust ivy 2 months
syngonium 'White Butterfly' 2 months
by krandall-at-world.std.com (Karen A Randall)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995
> From: WORKINGSW-at-aol.com
> Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 14:37:28 -0400
> Subject: Re: Sources for pennywort/ID questions
> >>Secondly, I bought a plant IDed at the store as "Pusillia sp."
> plant with grasslike leaves about 3-5 mm across and 40-50 mm lon
> know what it might be?<<
>
> My bet would be Acorus gramineus v. pusillus. This is not a tru
> though some folks have luck with it for a while... prefers coole
> looks great in terrestrial bonsai plantings & would probably be
> palludarium. If you end up liking it, the cheapest way to buy m
> regular plant nursury - just be sure to root prune it hard befor
> it lest ye get stinking mass o' rotting roots.
I have had the same Acorus plant in my aquarium for 4 years now.
It has increased steadily, and I have given pieces to other
aquarists. It has done equally well for them, with or without CO2
or high lighting. The tank I keep it in is about 76F. Oh, BTW,
at one point, after hearing that it did better emersed, I took a
division and tried to grow it on the window sill. Even under
plastic to keep the humidity up, it never did as well as in the
tank. I finally gave it to a friend who put it in his tank, and
two years later it is still doing great.
I'm not sure which sp./variety it is that I'm keeping, but it is
small, so I suspect that it is pusillus.
Karen Randall
Aquatic Gardeners Assoc.
Boston, MA
by krandall-at-world.std.com (Karen A Randall)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995
> Subject: Acorus
Anne,
> >>I have had the same Acorus plant in my aquarium for 4 years no
> It has increased steadily, and I have given pieces to other
> aquarists.<<
>
> That's exciting to hear, as I am very fond of this plant! What
> pH & hardness like? Maybe my first tank just wasn't right for i
> on it after that one). As far as terrestrial growth, it is slow
> to prefer to be outside in filtered sun. I think it also likes
> as it has grown & bloomed for me.
As I mentioned, I think there are more than one species of Acorus,
and certainly more than one subspecies, so you and I amy not have
been working with the same plant. The pH in my tank is 6.8, KH 5,
GH 150 ppm. The friends I have given it to are keeping it at a
similar pH, but their water is considerably softer than mine. I
suspect that Acorus would not be happy outside in New England
winters.<g>
> If similar plants (eg ophiopogon) can do as well, then I'll be s
> some of that gorgeous black mondo grass in my temperate tank (ah
> get around to setting it up, that is ;-).
As far as I know, "Mondo Grass" does not do well submersed long
term.
Karen Randall
Aquatic Gardeners Assoc.
Boston, MA
by "Alysoun McLaughlin" <alysoun.mclaughlin/ncsl.org>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998
>At my LFS last night I noticed some aluminum plants for sale, remembering
the
>discussion here I became mildly curious. Doesn't a LFS have some sort of
>liability for selling a product that has no biological chance of surviving
in
>the medium? There must be some legal remedy to discourage this practice.
All
>states have bad faith commerce clauses. Perhaps this plant can survive and
>"our" experts are just not familiar with it, or more likely the plant has
been
>misidentified.
No more liability than for selling you an african dwarf frog, and not
informing you that it will eventually grow large enough to eat all your
fish...
Or for selling you a luleupi and an agassizzi without telling you to put
them in different tanks...
Sure, you can sue if you want to, but I think there's a word for it...
frivolous... ? You'll be better off if you just find an LFS with
knowledgeable staff, and tell all your friends... or do your homework before
you buy, and spread the word.
Alysoun McLaughlin
alysoun-at-planetall.com
by krandall/world.std.com
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998
>At my LFS last night I noticed some aluminum plants for sale, remembering the
>discussion here I became mildly curious. Doesn't a LFS have some sort of
>liability for selling a product that has no biological chance of surviving in
>the medium?
First, although I wish merchants were better informed, a lot of them don't
_know_ what plants are aquatic and what are not. They order "mixed plants"
from the wholesaler, who may, himself, not know anything about plants.
Even those merchants who _do_ know that these plants are not aquatic (and
aluminum plants are only one of many non-aquatics offered for sale as
"decorations") figure that the plants would die in most aquarists tanks
whether they were aquatics or not... I bet Rotala macrandra dies much
faster in most tanks than aluminum plant does.<g>
>There must be some legal remedy to discourage this practice. All
>states have bad faith commerce clauses.
First, you have to prove bad faith. In most cases it's ignorance. Second,
I beleive that in most cases, you can only recover damages. What have you
lost? $1.98 worth of plants?
> Perhaps this plant can survive and "our" experts are just not familiar
with it, or more likely the >plant has been misidentified.
Nope. It's (Pilea cadieri) and I've seen it offered for sale numerous
times along with other non-aquatics like Hemigraphis (Purple Crinkle,
Purple Waffle), Aglonaema, Syngonium, Ophiopogon (Mondo Grass), Lycopodium
(Princess Pine) Dracaena sanderiana (Sandy) ... Should I continue?
I believe our best recourse is education. Teach people to be sure that the
plants they purchase are aquatic or amphibious. Teach people to take care
of their plants well enough that they have a chance of surviving _if_
they're aquatics. Point out non-aquatics to pet shop owners. (in a nice
way) Offer to help them choose plants that will actually do well for their
customers from their wholesaler's lists.
Growers keep producing these plants because, unfortunately, there is great
demand for them. People like them because they die slowly :-(
Karen Randall
Aquatic Gardeners Association
by Tom Barr <tcbiii/pacbell.net>
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999
Hi Jim,
This plant does DO well under water given good conditions. I've had
some for some time and there are nice new roots,new leaves, and good
general submersed growth . It's a tough plant . I cannot agree with
what's on the web on this plant as my own experience shows otherwise.
This plant will not cause you any problems unless general conditions for
plants are not being met. It likes moderate to low light and cooler
temps(Mine's @70 F) .Acorus is sometimes accused of being a blacklisted
plant as are a few others but it grows for years under water.
Generally speaking ,I would suggest staying away from the "blacklisted
plants" being new to planted aquaria. Stick with old favorites......
you'll have more sucesses and less confusion !!
Tom Barr AGA
by krombhol/teclink.net (Paul Krombholz)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000
"Allen" wrote:
>I've seen this plant for sale at AZgardens and I'm hoping a friend of mine
>will be able to mail me one or two. It's certainly attractive in the
>photograph. However during a search for it I've found it on a non-aquatic
>blacklist at... PetSwarehouse (Swearhouse back around holiday time). I'm
>definately interested in any experience with this plant, on a hardiness
>scale would it say on par with Bolbitis? It looks like it's an epiphyte.
>
>BTW: have you found that a large java fern will sprout smaller leaves once
>the rhizome is cut ala Bolbitis?
Tom Barr replied:
It is a black listed plant and it will not grow underwater. I've gotten it
to pearl some but never produce a fiddle head. Bog plant only.
Regards,
Tom Barr
I'm glad that Tom has tried the plant. From the picture at the Arizone
gardens web site, it kind of looked to me like it belonged out of the
water, but you can never reliably tell by looking at the emerse form
whether or not a plant is capable of growing submersed. There was
something about those brown roots in the picture that said this plant was
strictly terrestrial.
Paul Krombholz, in sunny central Mississippi, where things are drying out
again.
The Krib
Plants
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