The Krib Plants Plants!	[E-mail]

[F][P] Crytocoryne secrets?

by hslater-at-bonk.io.org (Harold Slater)
Date: 15 Dec 1994
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria

George Booth (booth-at-lvld.hp.com) wrote:
: Crypts may do best in fast moving water. 

: We have had only sporadic luck with crypts in our planted tanks, but I
: think I may have hit on an answer.  In discussing crypts with a member
: of the Southern Colorado Aquarium Society, we got around to where the
: plants were located in the tank.  In all the cases were we had good
: growth, the crypts were located in a relatively high water movement
: area, either at the outlet of a water return from a filter or in the
: path of a powerhead current.  In one case, we moved a great growing 
: stand of Crpytocoryne retrospiralis from a front center location in
: a powerhead current to a location towards the back in a relatively 
: quiet area.  It almost all died within a month. 

: This seems to make some snese since crypts are typically found in fast
: moveing streams.  

: Can anyone else verify this experience? 

The only reason for this is that they need good gas exchange. They actually
do much better out of water in bog conditions. I've had Crypt affinis and
blassi grow huge and flower under slow moving bog conditions. Most crypts
will not send up a flower spathe under submerged conditons. One of the
reasons they don't do well in most tanks is not lack of light and poor
flow but a lack of usable iron and CO2. They really like laterite at their
roots. In the wild the streams and rivers they grow near are flowing over
iron substrates. Of course there are exceptions (C. usteriana and other
bubble leafs) but on the whole I have found that they like slow flowing
soft water and iron rich substrates.

       Harold Slater
      -=Botanika=-

Cryptocoryne pontederiifolia

by pkonshak-at-fiat.gslis.utexas.edu (Peter Konshak)
Date: 19 Jan 1995
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria

Thomas Narten (narten-at-cs.duke.edu) wrote:

> But everyone knows that crypts tend to wilt at odd times, and there
> isn't always the expected correlation.  For example, when I moved 700+
> miles this past summer, I abused my crypts by toting them around in a
> bucket for a week and letting them overheat on the back deck.  Much to
> my surprise, the crypts didn't wilt badly (surprisingly the
> A. lanceolata, however, took a nasty hit).  Then, last week, one batch
> of those crypts suddenly melted even though they had been in the same
> tank/conditions for the last 4 months.

Some situations in which I have lost crypts:

o Added fertilizer at 1/2 reccomended dosage
o Replaced flourescent light (increase in light caused melting).
o Heater malfunction causing temperature swings
o Water change over 50%
o Various "plant safe" medications

There have been others.  My point is that most people don't think twice 
about adding fertilizer, but this can melt some crypts if the dosage is 
too strong.  Ditto for changing a flourescent light.

I think anyone can grow C. wendtii.  It's a pretty tough plant as far as 
Crypts go.  I've decided my C. pontederiifolia needs more light.  I've 
added another 80 watts of light, and will slowly increase (ie, extra 80 
watts for 1 extra hour per day until I get up to about 10 hours) until I 
notice some results (if any).  BTW, this tank also supports C. beckettii, 
C. wendtii, C. wendtii var. de wit, C. affinis and several C. assorted 
which are unidentified.

Peter


------------------------------
Peter Konshak
pkonshak-at-fiat.gslis.utexas.edu
------------------------------

Crypts and CO2

by David Randall <76535.2776-at-compuserve.com>
Date: 12 Apr 95

Shaji

 >> I think CO2 could help my crypts as well.  At least, I may be able to
answer the $1M question: does CO2 hurt or help crypts? <<

 I have tanks set up with and without supplemental CO2, and the Crypts do well
in both.  They are bigger in the tanks with supplemental CO2, but these tanks
also have higher lighting, better substrate and daily trace element
supplementation so the whole environment is closer to optimum.  I'm not
willing to say that the CO2 is what makes them larger.  My feeling is that
what Crypts object to is not so much the use of supplemental Co2, but the
unstable environment in some tanks where CO2 is supplied in a sporadic or
variable manner. (as with the use of a yeast reactor)

Crypt Rot

by Peter Konshak <pkonshak-at-fiat.gslis.utexas.edu>
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995

Erik,

I spoke with Mike Tronkowski of Delaware Aquatic Imports not too long ago 
about crypt rot.  He explained it as a natural adaptation the plants use 
in their ever changing environment.  As the seasons change, and 
conditions change, the plant will "rot" or shed all its leaves.  The 
plant then grows back a new set of leaves in the new environment.  There 
are many things that can cause this change in our aquaria including:

Temperature changes/swings
Over Fertilization
Change in lighting
Change in water composition (pH, hardness, etc).
...and others

It sounds like your conditions have remained fairly consistant.  How are 
your flourescent lights?  Are they getting old?  Perhaps the 
quality/quantity of light has been changing due to old bulbs.  Hopefully, 
your wendtii/lutea will come back.  Whenever I've melted crypts, leaving 
the rootstock alone and a little praying has always brought the plant 
back ok  :)

I'd be interested to know how your C. pontederifolia is doing.  I have 4 
specimens in my 75 gallon tank and have had little luck with this plant.  
I've got several other crypts growing well in this tank (wendtii, 
becketii, usertiana, some others) but something seems to be lacking for 
the pontederifolia.

Peter


- ------------------------------
Peter Konshak
pkonshak-at-fiat.gslis.utexas.edu
- ------------------------------

Crypts and Light

by CrypDude-at-aol.com
Date: Fri, 5 May 1995

It's not specifically the INCREASE in light that caused the crypts to
melt--it's simply a significant change in lighting that did it.  They require
a stable environment--stable water chemistry, temperature, and light
level...when any of these varaibles are changed significantly, cryptocorynes
go into their "melt and regrowth" phase.  Just leave the additional light on
the tank...it'll be good for the cyptocorynes in the long run--but they'll
have to regrow from scratch again.

Dave.

(No Title)

by David Randall <76535.2776-at-compuserve.com>
Date: 15 Jun 95

 >> I see that you are growing Crypt pontederifolia.  How is it doing in your
tank?  Is it shaded, in the open, etc? How large, and how many leaves?   How
quickly does it grow?
 I'm still struggling with this plant and would appreciate any advice. <<

 I'm keeping this plant too.  I've had one for about 2 1/2 years, the other
I've had since December.  Both came with emersed growth leaves that had curled
back under the base of the plant, and two or three measly little roots, so
they were very hard to initially anchor in the substrate.

 The first was kept for most of its life in a very low tech tank with hard
water, high pH (about 8),  low light and no supplemental CO2. It got to be
about 3" high, and grew a number of new leaves, but it was always pale, and
never looked particularly robust.

 When I got the second plant, I put both in my Discus tank, which has
reasonable light (although very filtered by the time it reaches the bottom of
the tank) supplemental CO2 and my UGF/heater system for slow water movement
through the substrate.  Substrate consists of #1 gravel ammended with laterite
and plant food tablets.  I use Duplaplant 24 daily.

 Under these conditions, the C. pontederifolia has really taken off.  While it
has yet to develop offsets, the two original plants are more than 6" tall,
have numerous leaves and are a beautiful luminous green.  This growth has
occurred mainly within the last 6-8 weeks, so my feeling is that the plants
have finally settled in and are just getting started.

 Subject: Transplanting Cryptocorynes

 David Huie writes:

 >>  I just transplanted a few very large c. wendtii (40+ leaves, 11" tall)
from the front of the tank to the back and I trimmed the roots like you are
supposed to--I just wondered whether cryptocoryne rot was likely to set in
because of the shock to the plant. <<

 I have found C. wendtii to be one of the sturdiest, most "bomb-proof" Crypts.
I have stands up to 18" tall and covering areas of the substrate up to about
6x10".  I have ripped up sections of these stands numerous times to move to
other tanks, sell at club auctions and give away.  I've never had any
particular problems with the original stands or with the offsets that are
transplanted.  I may see a leaf or 3 start to deteriorate, but these are
quickly replaced by new growth.

  E-mail from: Karen Randall, 15-Jun-1995

Giant C wendtii & straw

by krandall-at-world.std.com (Karen A Randall)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995

Steve,
 
> > Not all Wendtii is so restrained.  In my tanks I have both red and green
> > varieties, and they are 16-18" tall ;-)
> 
> Wish that I had your problem! My two year old wendtii has leaves and
> stems around 6" but they grow kinda sideways so don't attain a large
> height. I've heard there are many varieties of this plant. What makes
> the difference between a variety and a species? Would mine attain these
> proportions given a different environment? How large can I hope to
> grow them? These leaves are much larger than the ones it had when I
> first got the plants. Mine have not produced any runners. Is there
> a way to propagate them for instance by root cuttings?

There _are_ different varieties of wendtii, and some are larger than others. 
 But if yours is not reproducing, it would lead me to believe that 
conditions aren't completely to it's liking.  It is one of the easiest 
Crypts, and tends to be _very_ prolific.  Unlike some Crypts, it does not 
send long runners out with plants popping up at great distances from the 
parent.  Instead, the runners are short, and the stand tends to get bigger 
and bigger, so it looks more like one large plant until you try to take it 
apart.  Then you will find that there are masses of individual plants, each 
with only about 5 leaves.  Is it possible that you are confusing this growth 
pattern with lack of reproduction?

As to what makes a species a species, the experts aren't sure, so I'm not 
gonna get in the middle of it!  That's why scientific names change all the 
time... New people come along with new ideas, and new information, and lines 
between species, subspecies and varieties shift.

There are a few things that make Crypts harder than other genera to 
classify.  They can look _very_ different depending on the conditions they 
are growing under.  I have photos of one stand of Crypts at various times 
over a 4 year period, as conditions changed in my tank.  If I didn't _know_ 
that it was the same plant, I don't think I'd believe it.

Second, like Day Lilies, some species of Crypts (even in the wild) come in 
diploid, (and I think triploid and tetraploid) varieties.  This can make 
them look very different, even if they are very closely related genetically.

Third, it is sometimes (fairly often) impossible to ascertain the species of 
a Crypt without examining the flower.  Since the plants do not flower 
readily in captivity, it has not been an uncommon for a plant to be in 
someone's greenhouse for years before it finally flowers and is discovered 
to be a new species.  Conversely, one that is _thought_ to be something new, 
can turn out to be a well known species once it flowers.  Neils Jacobsen has 
gone one step further and done genetic studies on many of these plants in an 
effort to classify them more accurately.

(more than you ever wanted to know about Crypts, eh?<g>)

Aquatic plants that plant themselves

by krombhol-at-felix.TECLink.Net (Paul Krombholz)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996

I had some Aponogeton crispus that produced a bunch of seeds that floated
around a while and then germinated and sank.  They produced several leaves
and roots and a number of them planted themselves.  They got one root in
the gravel and then pulled the crown down to the gravel surface.  They
started with the crown about an inch above the gravel, but in a few weeks
it was pulled right down to the surface.  I don't know how they did it.

Recently I saw some Crypotcoryne balansae  do the same thing.  I had
uprooted a number of plants and left them floating in a 15 gallon tank.  I
got all tied up with work and they floated for a month.  Then I had a
little time and I put a tray of soil under them, but then work got me all
tied up again and I never had time to plant them.  (Work is the curse of
the drinking class!:)  Over the next three months they all planted
themselves by the same mysterious process, pulling their crowns down as
much as four inches.  Formerly straight roots would develop bends after a
newer root penetrated the soil, so it looks as if the new roots were doing
the pulling, although I can't imagine how they did it.

I wonder how many other aquatic plants can plant themselves.  Has anybody
else seen this happen?

Paul Krombholz                  Tougaloo College, Tougaloo, MS  39174

tank setup for crypts

by Paul Krombholz <krombhol-at-felix.TECLink.Net>
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996

............<snipped>..............

> All I know about plants is what I read and what you all teach me. I use the
>book AQUARIUM PLANTS, THEIR IDENTIFICATION, CULTIVATION AND ECOLOGY by Rataj
>and Horeman, c. 1977 by TFH Publications.  In it I read about cryptocaryons
>that;
> 1. Plant cryptocaryons in clean gravel with fish in the tank.  The fish
>will   produce food for the plants with time.
> 2. Use an underground filter, providing good water flow.
> 3. Do not expose the tank to direct sunlight.
> 4. Provide 12/12 hours of light/darkness, all the time.
> 5. Maintain soft water with neutral pH of between 70 to 80 degrees F.
> 6. Light intensity is not important, rather the daily duration of same
>(i.e. 12  hours per day) is important.
> The two referenced postings refer to using an "dirty" substrate.  Rataj and
>Horeman specifically state that this method is out.  They imphasize "clean"
>gravel only, that is improved over time with the production of nutrients by
>the fishes.
> Please help me sort out all of this conflicting input.
>
>                                   Thanks
>                                   Pat
Sorry, but I do not believe in what Rataj and Horeman say about planting
Cryptocoryne species.  I find that crypts do well in soil that has a good
supply of composted (not fresh!) organic matter.  Ordinary topsoil mixed
with 1/3 to 1/2 its volume of peat moss or dried cow manure and composted
aerobically for two or three weeks makes a good medium.  I have produced a
bushels of crypts with mixtures like this.  The roots of crypts have
abundant air channels that supply oxygen from the above ground parts of the
plant.  It is good to have soil where there is some biological oxygen
demand that solubilizes iron.  The only way you could keep crypts growing
in gravel with water flow-through would be to have a good supply of soluble
iron in the water.  I have also had very good growth of crypts when I lived
in an apartment where my two big tanks got sun during fall, winter and
spring.  They really need CO2 additions if they are getting sunlight, but,
if they have that, they really grow well!.  Also,I have fairly hard water,
here, that comes out of the tap with a pH of 8.5.  It doesn't seem to hurt
any of my crypts.

I think that without any CO2 additions and with clean or almost clean
gravel, crypts will do better in dim light than in brighter light primarily
because in dim light their growth rate will be very slow and their demand
for nutrients may therefore be met even though the supply is poor.  More
rapid growth requires a better nutrient supply than can be provided by
gravel only.

Rataj and Horeman may state that using a "dirty" substrate is out, but they
are just plain wrong!

Paul Krombholz                  Tougaloo College, Tougaloo, MS  39174

Where students and faculty are suffering from spring fever!

C. affinis

by Neil Frank <nfrank-at-nando.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 96

>From Peter Hughes:
>I have had a struggeling C. affinis for some time now and would like to 
>know a bit more about the requirements of this crypt. I have a friend who 
>has not been able to keep it here, but claims that he was able to keep it 
>in europe where the water is much harder. From recent discussions on the 
>APD, it seems that this plant is unable to cope with much hardness at all.

Affinis is a fussy and variable plant. For some people, it is easy to grow
and prolific; often, with dim light, without any substrate addititives or
CO2 enhancements. Although it can even grow better with a rich substrate,
added CO2 and brighter light, its success is not always guaranteed. I have
had more success with the former scenario, less with the latter. In both
cases, I have had a higher percentage of failures when I keep the plant in a
mixed plant community. I have not found the magic bullet to ensure positive
results.

This plant also seems to be very prone to the infamous crypt meltdown, more
so than many other crypts. It doesn't like abrupt change (water chemistry,
lighting, addition of other plants - especially other crypts). Once it is
planted, it should be left alone.  

Regarding hardness, many people report that this plant will do well in hard
water, and may even prefer it. It is also successfully grown here in the
U.S. by many southern Florida aquatic plant farms using their very hard,
limestone enriched ground water. I suspect that it might utilize
bicarbonates, or like a high percentage of Ca, Mg or other cations.


Neil Frank, TAG editor    Aquatic Gardeners Association    Raleigh, NC USA

tank setup for crypts

by Paul Krombholz <krombhol-at-felix.TECLink.Net>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 17:06:18 -0500

............<snipped>..............

> All I know about plants is what I read and what you all teach me. I use the
>book AQUARIUM PLANTS, THEIR IDENTIFICATION, CULTIVATION AND ECOLOGY by Rataj
>and Horeman, c. 1977 by TFH Publications.  In it I read about cryptocaryons
>that;
> 1. Plant cryptocaryons in clean gravel with fish in the tank.  The fish
>will   produce food for the plants with time.
> 2. Use an underground filter, providing good water flow.
> 3. Do not expose the tank to direct sunlight.
> 4. Provide 12/12 hours of light/darkness, all the time.
> 5. Maintain soft water with neutral pH of between 70 to 80 degrees F.
> 6. Light intensity is not important, rather the daily duration of same
>(i.e. 12  hours per day) is important.
> The two referenced postings refer to using an "dirty" substrate.  Rataj and
>Horeman specifically state that this method is out.  They imphasize "clean"
>gravel only, that is improved over time with the production of nutrients by
>the fishes.
> Please help me sort out all of this conflicting input.
>
>                                   Thanks
>                                   Pat
Sorry, but I do not believe in what Rataj and Horeman say about planting
Cryptocoryne species.  I find that crypts do well in soil that has a good
supply of composted (not fresh!) organic matter.  Ordinary topsoil mixed
with 1/3 to 1/2 its volume of peat moss or dried cow manure and composted
aerobically for two or three weeks makes a good medium.  I have produced a
bushels of crypts with mixtures like this.  The roots of crypts have
abundant air channels that supply oxygen from the above ground parts of the
plant.  It is good to have soil where there is some biological oxygen
demand that solubilizes iron.  The only way you could keep crypts growing
in gravel with water flow-through would be to have a good supply of soluble
iron in the water.  I have also had very good growth of crypts when I lived
in an apartment where my two big tanks got sun during fall, winter and
spring.  They really need CO2 additions if they are getting sunlight, but,
if they have that, they really grow well!.  Also,I have fairly hard water,
here, that comes out of the tap with a pH of 8.5.  It doesn't seem to hurt
any of my crypts.

I think that without any CO2 additions and with clean or almost clean
gravel, crypts will do better in dim light than in brighter light primarily
because in dim light their growth rate will be very slow and their demand
for nutrients may therefore be met even though the supply is poor.  More
rapid growth requires a better nutrient supply than can be provided by
gravel only.

Rataj and Horeman may state that using a "dirty" substrate is out, but they
are just plain wrong!

This message got sent back to me today (4/19), marked undeliverable for 5
days.   Actually, I sent it on the eighth, so it must have been in limbo
for 11 days.  Anyway, I am trying to send it again.

Here goes!

Paul Krombholz                  Tougaloo College, Tougaloo, MS  39174
In already humid Mississippi

List of Crypts

by Paul Krombholz <krombhol-at-felix.TECLink.Net>
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996

Here is a tentative list of my crypts along with comments.  I am only
guessing the species names on some of these.

(1) C. affinis          large variety, leaves up to 12 inches, tan undersides
                        without very much red color.  (I have seen another
                        variety that has wine-red to violet undersides)

(2) C. beckettii        I only have a small plant, growing emerse on the
                        windowsill.

(3) C. petchii?         I may have it as a small floating plant left over from
                        cleaning out a tank.  I am going to have to plant all
                        those little plants and see if any of them are petchii.

(4) C. Wendtii          (a) very large brown variety, (b) green variety with
                        some brown if the light is good, (c) A green variety
                        with honest to goodness red streaking (I am not totally
                        sure this is  wendtii), (d) A green variety, almost the
                        same as the previous one, except the streaks are brown,
                        (e) A variety I got from Neil Frank, described as large
                        red variety.  For me, it isn't red, but a very dark
                        brown. Also, it doesn't grow nearly as fast as my very
                        large brown variety, or get as large.

(5) C. ???              It is in the beckettii group and has light green leaves
                        which get tan markings in stronger light.  It is
                        smaller than C. beckettii.  Undersides of leaves are
                        mostly green.  Might be C. lutea.  I have just a few
                        plants growing submersed in a gallon jar on the
                        windowsill.

(6) C. lingua           I have a few plants, which I picked up in New York,
last
                        summer.  Right now, I am trying to get my ramshorns to
                        combat a blue-green algae infestation that is covering
                        those plants.

(7) C. willisii         It is hard to kill that one.  most of mine are emerse
                        in a gallon jar on the windowsill

(8) C. nevillii         I have a plant or two in the same gallon jar, fighting
                        it out with the willisii.

(9) C. parva?           (I think.)  It is a tiny little plant with bright green
                        leaves only about 1 inch long.  I have a big clump of it
                        growing in a small finger bowl.  I plan to break it up
                        one of these weeks when I can find the time.

(10) C.pontederiifolia  Being grown emerse in a gallon jar on the windowsill.
                        We had a cold snap that killed some of it, and I only
                        have about two or three small plants now.

(11) C. purpurea?       Or maybe blassii.  Just two plants I got in New York.
                        I want to give them good conditions and multiply them
                        when I can get the time.

(12) C. costata         I have just two little plants now fighting a losing
                        battle with pigmy chain sword.  I want to give them
                        better conditions and multiply them when I can get the
                        time. Hope they can hang in there!

(13) C. albida          (Now considered a variety of C. crispatula) I have a 15
                        gallon tank packed with it.  I plan to tear it down  in
                        a month or two.

(14) C. balansae        (Also considered a variety of C. crispatula).  I have
                        about 10 plants.

(15) C. aponogetifolia  I have about 4 small plants, the survivors of a gigantic
                        melt down due to months of neglect in a 75 gallon tank
                        that had at least 50 plants.  Three of them are
                        obligated to ever-so patient Shaji Bhaskar and will be
                        sent when they get a little larger.


Paul Krombholz                  Tougaloo College, Tougaloo, MS  39174

Where students and faculty are suffering from spring fever!

Crypt rot

by Karen A Randall <krandall-at-world.std.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:46:07 -0400

Peter,

> The biggest problem that I have is with a single species of cryp
> balansae. I really like this crypt, but every time that it appea
> going in the right direction something happens and it gets set b
> last was when the CO2 solenoid stuck on during the evening and t
> dropped to 5 by the next morning. Under what conditions do peopl
> this crypt? I have it at pH 7, 10ppm CO2, .1ppm, 180ppm GH, in a
> established aquarium with a laterite substrata. As i said before
> not do all that flash.

I limped along with C. balansae for years under various 
cconditions before I tried it in a peat substrate.  It has never 
looked back.


Karen Randall
Aquatic Gardeners Assoc.
Boston, MA

crypt rot

by Paul Krombholz <krombhol-at-felix.TECLink.Net>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:06:33 -0500

A lot of things can cause crypt rot.  I think a better name for the
condition is "meltdown".  I don't think it is a bacterial or viral disease
because the plants can, and almost always do, recover completely.

Going from low CO2 to higher CO2 can cause it, especially if the light is
low.  When the light is increased along with the CO2, the meltdown is very
minor.

going from a very low nutrient supply to a higher one can cause it.
However, if you keep the nutrient levels higher, the plants will recover
and grow well.

If you have been growing your crypts without any fish, and then you add a
fish or two, meltdown will often occur.

If another plant, such as Hygrophila is 'taking over' the tank, the crypts
will sooner or later have a meltdown.

if there are no water changes in a tank for a long time (a year or more),
meltdown is likely.

Something decaying in the tank, such as a dead fish, can sometimes set off
a meltdown, especially if the amount of decay is enough to make the water
cloudy.

Crypts are more sensitive to meltdowns from a variety of causes when they
are crowded in a tank, as opposed to being sparsely planted.

Meltdowns do not kill crypts, provided that the decaying crypt leaves do
not lower the oxygen content of the water so much that the rhizome is
killed.  If you can keep the water aerobic, the rhizome always lives and
soon sends up new leaves.

Paul Krombholz                  Tougaloo College, Tougaloo, MS  39174
In steamy Mississippi.

Crypt care and ID

by Neil Frank <nfrank-at-mindspring.com>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997

At 07:29 PM 3/7/97 -0500, Dave Littlehale wrote on the crypt mailing list:
>I just purchased some C. haerteliniana and looked it up in Aquarium
>Plants by Rataj & Horeman.  There the species is listed as C. affinis. 
>In the write up it says "sensitive to calcium and does not do well in
>alkaline or hard water."

This is not the only mistake in the Rataj book!


>
>In Aquarium Plants Manual by Scheurmann it says about C. affinis
>"tolerates subdued light and relatively hard water."


C. affinis (syn.  C. haerteliniana) definitely does well in hard water. This
has been confirmed by many aquarists. In fact, aquatic plant nursersies in
Florida grow this plant submerged using the hard ground water common to the
southern part of the State.

I have recently started to add calcium to my crypt tanks (by using small
amounts of crushed coral in their substrate) and I am seeing improvement in
my ability to grow these plants in my soft, well processed tap water. I have
not yet decided whether dolomite (with mg) is better than crushed coral. I
am a little concerned about the possible negative effects of too much Mg
which has been said to block the plant's uptake of other trace elements. I
think some crypts definitely do poorly in my soft water (this includes
includes C. pontederiifolia). It could be because my tap water is either
lacking something (like Ca) or because it has too much of something added at
the water treatment plant.

>
>Also, my C. haerteliniana looks nothing like any of the pics in either
>book.  It looks like a balansae except the blade is a little wider and
>the underside is red.  Could this be a variation due to growing
>conditions?

Yes, and there are also different varieties of C. affinis. There is a
"giant" variety (which can get large or stay small) which tends to be more
bullate and a "small" variety whose leaves tend to be less bumpy (for me).
Both get the reddish underside.  "That Fish Place" in Lancaster PA carries
both kinds... unfortunately they don't mail order their plants any more.


Neil Frank      Aquatic Gardeners Association         Raleigh, NC
      The Aquatic Gardener - journal of the AGA -  now in its seventh year!!

Making the transition from submergerged to emerged growth

by Paul Krombholz <krombhol-at-felix.TECLink.Net>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997

>I haven't noticed much traffic of late on this list. Hope I haven't missed
>something!
>
>I would like to get some suggestions on how to help some Crypts make the
>transisiton from submerged growth to emerged growth. First, a little
>background:

...................<background snipped>..................
>Now, to my question. Tropica brand plants are readilly available here in
>Toronto. A local store can get me anything on Tropica's list and the plants
>are really nice. I know that Tropica's plants are grown emersed in their
>little plastic pots. Would Crypts from this source have a problem if I
>attempted to use them in a situation such as I have in mind? I have seen
>how sometimes a plant which had been grown emersed will loose all of their
>older leaves when switched to a submerged situation, and am prepared for
>the same thing to happen when I attempt to do the same thing in reverse.
>But I am wondering about the transitional period, i.e. should I place the
>selected plants in a shallow aquarium and gradually (over a period of
>weeks) lower the water level until the plant adapts and has a chance to
>produce emerged leaves on its own? Or just plop the plants into the emersed
>situation right from the start?

The only thing I would suggest would be to plant formerly submersed plants
in soil with about an inch or two of water, and then gradually lower the
water to whatever final level you want after the plants have grown one or
more emersed leaves.  I wouldn't transplant them from submersed condition
directly to soil that is not covered with any water at all.  For me, Crypts
grown emersed are not nearly as pretty as those grown emersed.  I seem to
get plain green plants emersed, whereas, submersed, I get all those browns
and reds and much bigger leaves.

>Last week I picked up a pot of C. albida (costata) and it supposed to grow
>only very slowly when grown submerged. My source says it grows better in a
>VERY humid terrarium (emersed). Would this be a good cantidate for growing
>in a situation such as I describe?

Actually, C. albida grows pretty well for me submersed, if I take the
trouble to give it good growing conditions---soil-peat mix with CO2
enrichment and good light.  From the shape of the leaves, it looks like a
crypt that is fairly well adapted to submersed conditions.

By the way, I have evidence that what Kasselmann says in Aquarienpflanzen
about C. nevilli and C. luciens really being hybrids between C. parva and
several other species is true.  I have two varieties, both sold as C.
nevillii.  One is the 'classic' variety with leaves that are always green
and have, at the most a bit of brown along the edges with green centers.
The other has larger leaves with a greater tendency to turn brown all over
in good light.  The larger leaves also get wavy edges.
>
Hoping that the day will come when Tropica can ship to the U.S. ,

Paul Krombholz                  Tougaloo College, Tougaloo, MS  39174
In cold, drizzly Jackson, Mississippi, where winter is back.    



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unsubscribe or get help , send the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" or
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ID-ing crypts

by nfrank/nando.net (Neil Frank)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 96
To: crypts/aquaria.net

>>I would like recommendations for a book that is particularly helpful in
>>identifying crypts.  Many titles for general plant ID-ing purposes have been
>>suggested in the APD... which is reckoned best for figuring out which
>>cryptocorynes one has?
>
>i respectfully submit there arn'y any, and we have as good a chance
>as any of writing it.

Correction: there isn't one written in Europe. There are several books on
crypts written in other languages. One is Cryptocorynen by Jacobsen (1982).
Dewit's book (199x, also in German) has an extensive section on
Cryptocoryne. In the English language, I would say that the 3 volumes of the
Baensch atlas' may be the best for most of us in the new world.

But books will not help with ID's, only help to put plants into broad
categories. Among the dozens of species, so many have similar leaves which
may vary due to environmental conditions. For many, if not most species,
flowering is the only way for correct IDs.

BTW, my favorite crypts are the affinis, all varieties. Flowering is not
needed for these. <g>

Neil Frank, TAG editor    Aquatic Gardeners Association    Raleigh, NC USA

crypt rot

by krombhol/felix.TECLink.Net (Paul Krombholz)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996
To: crypts/aquaria.net

A lot of things can cause crypt rot.  I think a better name for the
condition is "meltdown".  I don't think it is a bacterial or viral disease
because the plants can, and almost always do, recover completely.

Going from low CO2 to higher CO2 can cause it, especially if the light is
low.  When the light is increased along with the CO2, the meltdown is very
minor.

going from a very low nutrient supply to a higher one can cause it.
However, if you keep the nutrient levels higher, the plants will recover
and grow well.

If you have been growing your crypts without any fish, and then you add a
fish or two, meltdown will often occur.

If another plant, such as Hygrophila is 'taking over' the tank, the crypts
will sooner or later have a meltdown.

if there are no water changes in a tank for a long time (a year or more),
meltdown is likely.

Something decaying in the tank, such as a dead fish, can sometimes set off
a meltdown, especially if the amount of decay is enough to make the water
cloudy.

Crypts are more sensitive to meltdowns from a variety of causes when they
are crowded in a tank, as opposed to being sparsely planted.

Meltdowns do not kill crypts, provided that the decaying crypt leaves do
not lower the oxygen content of the water so much that the rhizome is
killed.  If you can keep the water aerobic, the rhizome always lives and
soon sends up new leaves.

Paul Krombholz                  Tougaloo College, Tougaloo, MS  39174
In steamy Mississippi.

Melting Cryptocoryne

by Neil Frank <nfrank/mindspring.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997
To: Aquatic-Plants/actwin.com, crypts/aquaria.net

>From: jphealy-at-SYSCONN.COM
>Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:26:14 -0500 
>Subject: Melting Cryptocoryne
>
>The kinds of shocks that Crypts melt from include: large change in the
>amount of light, swings in pH, and transplanting. 



I would add the following to the list: irregular schedule of water changes,
large infrequent water changes, large changes in water chemistry (including
CO2 levels... similar to the pH comment), adding new crypts with their
leaves attached (same or different species),... or just looking at the tank
in the wrong way :-)

The tendancy to melt varies with the species - some vary stable, and others
more sensitive.

It seems to me that every time I get my crypts to the point where I want
them.... e.g. to cover the entire bottom or section of a tank, then
something weird causes them to experience a major melt. I often wondered if
after a few years growth if this is inevitable,.. or even part of their
normal biology. Maybe some intervention is possible. 

As Justin, indicates, they WILL recover, but the return period varies and
sometimes depending what other plants are already in the tank, the crypts
don't recover to their original state. 

I view them as the most beautiful genus and also as my biggest challenge...
but without challenges, the aquatic plant hobby wouldn't be fun, would it!!

neil
Neil Frank      Aquatic Gardeners Association         Raleigh, NC


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Crypts enjoy strong light too

by Neil Frank <nfrank/mindspring.com>
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998

At 03:48 PM 5/11/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 00:43:58 -0700
>From: Steve Pushak <teban-at-powersonic.bc.ca>
>Subject: Crypts enjoy strong light too
>
>Recently someone said that Crypts prefer low lighting. This is not true.
>They are able to tolerate relatively low lighting but like all aquatic
>plants, they will grow MUCH better given good STRONG lighting and proper
>nutrients. 
>

Crypts can tolerate weak lighting... true. Crypts can benefit from stronger
lighting... true. But not all crypts enjoy the same degree of lighting as
other plants. For this reason, commercial growers have to control the
amount of natural light they give crypts.... some more than others. This is
despite the VERY rich substrates that they use. 

Neil Frank, AGA

"Cryptocoryne disease"

by "Merrill Cohen" <amc2/ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998

Just for the record, I thought it interesting to note that the so called
"Cryptocoryne disease" happens in the wild. 

"This same thing happens in the wild with Cryptocorynes towards the end of
the dry season.  Hitherto this 'disease' was thought to be an aquarium
phenomenon, but it actually a regular natural occuranace".  --  Page 61 on
The Aquatic Flora of Lao (Laos) in the gorgeous magazine, "Aqua Geographia"
published and reported by Heiko Bleher, Vol. 16, 1998

Merrill Cohen
AGA

Easy Crypts

by krandall/world.std.com
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998

>I am looking for some "easy" crypts. The LFS has some Red Crypt
>Wendetii (sp?). Is this one of the easier species? 

Yes.  One of the reasons that there are so many wendtii varieties available
is that it is one of the least demading Crypts both for aquarists and for
growers.

>	Any crypts recommended for mildly alkaline (7-7.5), moderately
>hard (12d GH) water, gravel-only substrate with Flourish tabs/planttabs,
>2W/Gal using a "daylight" bulb, no CO2 injection, moderate fish load?

Many will be fine at that pH/hardness.  Wendtii certainly will.



Karen Randall
Aquatic Gardeners Association

Crypts and Nitrate

by krombhol/teclink.net (Paul Krombholz)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999

>From: "Jose Correa Lohmann" <jcl@pol.com.pe>


>I've just finished reading the Optimum Aquarium and they mention that
>cypts only use ammonium and can't use nitrate as other plants do. Does
>anyone has any comments about this. I'm planning to supplement my
>aquariums with KNO3 because they have 0 or near 0 nitrates and also want
>to supplement on K.
>

it is not true.  Crypts are able to utilize nitrate.  I have seen crypts in
my tanks respond with increased growth to additions of only a few ppm of
nitrate.

Paul Krombholz, in mild Central Mississippi, with rain on the way.  

Rootbound Crypts

by krandall/world.std.com
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999

>One tank is taken over by C wendtii, it has buldozed other crypt stands.
>The second has a crypt that physically looks like C. bekettii (in Tropica's
>page) but is browinsh red, used to have foot long leaves. These have thinner
>roots than C wendtii and grow *very fast*.

I wouldn't have any qualms about pulling C. becketti apart either.  I
_wouldn't_ do it to C. affinis.  If you don't want to take chances, pul
just a small section off the edge, move them and see how they do.  If they
are not unduly taumatized<g> by the move, you can get more aggressive with
the main stand.  At least you'll have a second population to fall back on.


Karen Randall
Aquatic Gardeners Association

C. ciliata/cordata var. blassii

by "II, Thomas Barr" <tcbiii/earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999

- ----------
>From: Aquatic-Plants-Owner@actwin.com (Aquatic Plants Digest)
>To: Aquatic-Plants@actwin.com
>Subject: Aquatic Plants Digest V3 #1305
>Date: Mon, Sep 27, 1999, 11:48 PM
>

>
>Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:39:57 -0700
>From: Robert H <robertph@best.com>
>Subject: Ciliata trade
>
>Well nobody bothered to respond to my question on care requirements of C. 
>ciliata, except one person off list, (thank you!). Is this a plant 
>unfamiliar to people here? Anyhow, I have 30 large plants with thick root 
>masses, new growth, and good color that I would be willing to trade. I am 
>particularly looking for affinis or less common Cryptocorynes. Please 
>contact me off list!
>
>Robert Paul  H
>http://www.aquabotanic.com
>"Lots of good info and  plants for sale"
>winner of the StudyWeb Academic Excellence Award
>AB & Roger Williams Zoo
>http://www.aquabotanic.com/RWPzoo.htm
>plants for sale
>http://www.aquabotanic.com/4sale_prices.htm
>Gallery
>http://www.aquabotanic.com/gallery.htm

I have this plant and have had limited luck with it submersed. It acts like
C. lingua but a little better. I had 2 plants make runners once. I know they
grow in salt marshes in nature............. and other areas. Even there they
have only 2-5 leaves. There are 2 (or more) types also. One type is more
adaptable to submerse culture and the other is not.
I've have a couple for about a year submersed. They have one or two leaves.
Not a candidate for plant tanks unless you want to specialize or happen upon
the type that does well submersed. It depends on were the plant was
collected. I told Neil Frank when he was here that I didn't think it was
doing well but he seemed to think I was doing well with it. I have several
in an emersed tank along with the other hard as hell to grow types. They
like deep soil/bright light also. Prone to trace element deficiency with
holes resulting if something is out of balance. Leaves tend to curl downward
when unhappy. I don't know if this helps but FWIW!
If your getting into Crypts, consider emersed culture for grow outs and to
help those more difficult plants.
    On another note, I finally flowered the C.cordata var blassii submersed.
Anyone else flowered this plant submersed? Only 50 more species to go<g>! 
Regards,
Tom Barr

trimming/ pruning/ maintaining crypts

by "Roger S. Miller" <rgrmill/rt66.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000

On Sun, 15 Oct 2000, J Miller wrote:
 
>   I was always under the impression that crypts were low light plants. 
> But both Paul and Roger have stated that they grow like weeds (my
> paraphrase ;-) under what I would call high light.  I keep my crypts
> under the shadows of swords, and lilies, thinking that that's the best
> way to grow them.  

Crypts are known as low light plants because some commonly kept species
tolerate low light, not because they grow better in low light.  Given
enough light some Crypts are robust and aggressive plants.  Some species
(crispatula and ciliata come to mind) don't do at all well in low light.

>   I do have 80W of florescent light over my 35 gal plant tank, but I
> have placed all of the crypts out of direct light.  Will they grow
> faster, larger, more if I move them into direct light?

Yes, but...  Unless your lighting is unusually efficient 80w/35 gallons is
still not real bright, so you might not see much difference.  Their
recovery from the move and adaptation to brighter light may not be
immediate.

>   BTW, substrate is mostly just plane gravel, but it has, up until a
> few months ago, been a *fish* tank for several years.  I also added
> some left over Flourish and a few Jobes Spike for Ferns.  Should be a
> good rich substrate, right?

That might be fine.  Keep in mind that fertility has to be maintained.


Roger Miller

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