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Apistogramma sp. "Puerto Narino", "Schwarsaum", and "Rotpunkt"

Here's an illustrated spawning article by Kathy Olson, from the Greater Seattle Aquarium Society.

Contents:

  1. New subscriber to the apisto-at-aquaria.net mailing list.
    by Kathryn Knudsen <kk691111/bcm.tmc.edu> (Mon, 20 Jan 1997)
  2. Apistogramma sp. "Schwarsaum"
    by Phillip J. Ryti, MCA ()
  3. Apistogramma sp "puerto narino"
    by Randy or Deb Carey <carey/spacestar.net> (Thu, 18 Sep 1997)
  4. Sv: veijitas
    by swaldron/slip.net (Steven J. Waldron) (Tue, 27 Jan 1998)
  5. Red Apistos
    by Ken Laidlaw <K.Laidlaw/roe.ac.uk> (Thu, 26 Feb 1998)
  6. Red Apistos -Reply
    by swaldron/slip.net (Steven J. Waldron) (Wed, 25 Feb 1998)
  7. Red Apistos -Reply
    by "Kathryn Olson" <Kathryn.Olson/vmmc.org> (Wed, 25 Feb 1998)
  8. Apistogramma incognita
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Fri, 26 Jun 1998)
  9. New species?
    by Jota Melgar <jsmelgar/compuserve.com> (Thu, 2 Jul 1998)
  10. a.macmasteri
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Tue, 01 Dec 1998)
  11. Apistogramma sp. Schwarzsaum
    by "Newman, L" <Lee_Newman/bc.sympatico.ca> (Mon, 07 Dec 1998)
  12. Apistogramma sp. Schwarzsaum
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Tue, 08 Dec 1998)
  13. ? about A. macmasteri
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Thu, 10 Dec 1998)
  14. Ble Cheeks
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Sat, 19 Jun 1999)
  15. unusual behavior
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Sat, 08 Jan 2000)


Full-grown Male Puerto Narino


Adolescent Male Puerto Narino


Female Puerto Narino


Juvenile Puerto Narinos

Photos by Erik Olson


Male Puerto Narino


Female Puerto Narino

Photos by Ken Laidlaw

New subscriber to the apisto-at-aquaria.net mailing list.

by Kathryn Knudsen <kk691111/bcm.tmc.edu>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997
To: "Francis Brian O'Carroll" <ocarroll/acm.org>



On Sun, 19 Jan 1997, Francis Brian O'Carroll wrote:

> That was a great post, Kathryn.
> 
> Kathryn Knudsen wrote:
> 
> > Currently, we have A. cacatuoides and fry, A. "Puerto-Narino" and fry,
> 
> Can some one tell me what these A. P-N's are like? What species
> are they closest to? Common names are not likely to carry over
> to Tokyo.
> 
> Frank O'Carroll
> Tokyo
> 
> 


Frank,

Thanks for the note.  This is what I know so far about the Puerto Narino's.

A. sp "Puerto-Narino" is believed to be a bridge species between the 
regani and macmasteri groups (Wise unpublished 1997).  There are three 
species listed as bridge species between these two groups.  The A sp 
"Puerto-Narino",  A sp. "Rotpunkt" and A sp. "Schwarzsaum".
It is theorized that these three may be geographical color morphs of the 
same species, but that is not certain yet.   I haven't seen Schwarsaum in 
the literature lately but there is an article about them in Buntarsche 
Bulletin #147, Dec. 1991 by Kurt Zadnick.  I actually thought I had A. sp 
" Schwarzsaum" until Mike Wise identified them as P.N.

Originally we picked these fish up as contaminants.  
I knew they were probably from the macmasteri group, but 
there were features of the regani group, specifically eunotus, as well.  
Their color 
changed as they matured.  (juvenile pic put on the web by my husband 
[in this very thread! - Editor], the male has 
since lost the lateral line and has more blue throughout his body, he 
looks quite spectacular now..will try to get a new pic up)

In spawning color (and a majority of the time) the male completely losses 
his zig zag lateral line, and his body is blue with more pronounced 
blue flecks thoughout.  He has yellow over his head and upper body 
portions.  At times his entire operculum is blue with a remnant of a black 
cheek band.  The anal fin is blue as well.  The ventral fins are long and 
yellow tipped, with a black edge to the dorsal and anal fins.  The dorsal 
fin appears to be developing an extension as well.  There is a faint 
caudal spot and at times remants of transversal bars can be seen at the 
bottom of the dorsal fin.  

The female bright yellow orange with the lateral line broken up 3-5 black 
spots.  There are blue flecks on the operculum, extending througout the 
body.  The anal fin is yellow with blue flecks, and appears to have a 
black edge as well (so does the dorsal).  There is a black spot at the 
base of the pectoral fin in both the male and the females.  

Well I hope this helps.  If anyone else out there has heard anything else 
I would love to hear it.   They have turned out to be really cool fish, 
but in the beginning I was sure razzed about bringing home this drab, 
colorless fish.  That statement has since been retracted.  

Good luck finding them in your neck of the woods!

Kathy



Apistogramma sp. "Schwarsaum"

by Phillip J. Ryti, MCA


     At our last winter auction in February 1997 I came across a trio
of these fish. Soon after they were brought home and were introduced
to a 25 gallon breeder tank. The current residents of the tank were
four Apistogramma nijsseni fry. Over about a weeks time I noticed
aggression from the male A. sp. "Schwarsaum" with the other fry. I
moved the four nijsseni to another tank and left the trio by
themselves. Later, there was a need to shuffle again because the
larger female became quite territorial with the other female. So for
about a month the young pair were able to grow up in their new
surroundings.

     About three weeks pre-spawning, I started doing some research
regarding breeding apistos and getting some advice from fellow
hobbyist. I made a concentrated effort to get the pair to spawn as
quickly as possibly. First, some gravel was added to the bare bottom
tank. Java moss and a Cryptocryne plant were spread throughout the
tank. Hornwort, water sprite and a few plastic floating plants were
added to provide cover. Many clay flowerpots were also dispearsed
around the aquarium.

     Next, attention was given to eating requirements. Live adult and
baby brine were offered to the pair which they eagerly enjoyed. The
tank conditions were made similar to those found in the wild.  At the
time of spawning the aquarium conditions were as follows. The
temperature was 79 degrees Fahrenheit, a PH of 6.5, and a hardness of
4GH and 2DH. The spawning site was a flowerpot laying on its side on
top of a piece of slate about 4 inches off of the gravel bed floor.

     The female began to guard one of the flowerpots. Her color
changed from gray black markings to something brilliant. As typical of
the the genus the female turned a cadmium yellow which helped me draw
the conclusion that there were fry. Curious, I turned over the clay
flowerpot to find about 30 wigglers under their mother's care. The fry
did not become free-swimming until about seven days post-spawning. The
fry were then fed newly hatched brine shrimp and crushed flake.

     Interesting note with this species is that the female was not
overly concerned with the male in the tank. Although, she would arch
her body toward him in front of the fry. This seemed to keep the male
in his place. Also, Just prior to the pair spawning the extra female
was added to the tank.  One thing is for sure, the spawning female is
very protective of here fry. No toleration of the other female was
accepted. Even the male would force the odd-female to the opposite
side of the aquarium.

     Overall this is probably one of the easier apistos. I only had my
pair for a little over a month and they were already spawning. The
parents of my fish spawned in tap-water but I wanted to try spawning
them in a lower PH to test the sex ratio of the species. In time I
hope to find out what the results are. Until then, hopefully with good
food and lots of regular water changes these fry will come to resemble
their beautiful parents.

Apistogramma sp "puerto narino"

by Randy or Deb Carey <carey/spacestar.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com, K.Laidlaw/roe.ac.uk

Ken,

  What you describe seem a lot like puerto-narino.  As a matter of fact, some of
your descriptions sound a lot how I've described my specimens.  The key features
are the black spot at the base of the female's pectoral (more prominantly on
female), a zig-zagging lateral band on the male, the black line under the male's
eye is broken and changes direction at the break, and ventrals which extend to
the anal fin (and the ends can be yellow).  The latter two features are not found
in Linke's Red-Spot, so I feel the two are distinct species.

Unfortunately, I wasn't taking regular readings a few months ago when I was
breeding this species--with ease.  (I have changed my careless ways since.)  All
I can say is that my water has been very soft (60 to 100 microsemons), a pH in
the upper 5's through the 6's, and at a temp of upper 70's and sometimes up to
82.

--Randy Carey


Ken Laidlaw wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I recently bought a pair of apistos labelled in the shop as
> unknowns.  They were pretty drab in the shop tank but since
> Apistos can be hard to obtain in Scotland I bought them.
>
> I consulted the Tetra dwarf book and they were not exactly
> the same as any species, the closest likeness being A. sp
> black edge (or red spotted) apistogramma.  Mine are younger
> than the male pictured and don't have red spots (I can't
> see any red spots in the photo specimen though)but they
> have black edging on the dorsal & anal fins.
>
> I also had a look at Erik Olson's apistos and am now pretty
> sure that I have the puerto narino.  The main
> distinguishing feature seems to be the black spot at the
> base of the pectoral fin seen on both the male and female.
> The males lateral stripe is almost never solid but appears
> broken up into blobs.  The male is mainly a creamy-yellow
> colour with some blue on the sides.  The female when
> coloured up is yellow with distinct black markings.
>
> <SNIP>
>
> So does anyone out there have any tips for breeding this
> species (assuming that is what I have) such as temp & pH
> and will the fry eat the usual bbs etc. ?
>
> Also is it possible that the black edged apisto & puerto
> naino are the same fish?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Ken.
>
>



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Sv: veijitas

by swaldron/slip.net (Steven J. Waldron)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

>One fish I am especially interested in is you photo of
>A."rotpunkt", it looks very like A. "puerto narino", are
>these the same fish?

Hi all,
Puerto Narino are "rotpunkt" IMO. I've seen A. sp. rotpunkt under a number
of different synonyms through the years: as A. moae in a Cichlid News
article, A sp. "Schwarzsaum" as over-priced German imports, and countless
others from perhaps well-meaning, but less than eagle eyed aquarists.
Regardless, it's a great fish, probably one of the most adaptable and eager
to spawn apisto., great colors, big 'ol green lips on the males. A bit
frustrating though when you place an order for some new and exotic apisto.
only to find out it is a "rotpunkt",of which you have too many in the first
place.
- Steve Waldron

********************************************************************
Steven J. Waldron                          e-mail: swaldron-at-slip.net
2550 Balboa St. #2                         phone: (415) 386-7377
San Francisco, California, 94121 USA

"I like the look of frogs, and their outlook, and especially the way
they get together in wet places on warm nights and sing about sex."
                                 - Archie Carr, The Windward Road



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Red Apistos

by Ken Laidlaw <K.Laidlaw/roe.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com



> I have a question about sexing the Puerto Narino/Rotpunkt guys (or gals).  I
> purchased some about six weeks ago as A. agassizii (which they obviously
> weren't) and it took me a little while to figure out their identity. 

Some stores will name a fish whatever they like just to try 
and sell them, very annoying in my opinion.

 I have
> three individuals: two are ~4.5cm and yellow with black markings (mature or
> maturing) and the other is ~3cm and a paler gray color (immature).  The larger
> both have black spots by the pectorals, so I assume that they are females.

Both males and females have a pectoral spot, especially 
visible on the  males when  young.  These fish are not too 
easy to sex when small, look for a green metallic colour on 
the operculum, these are likely to be males.

> The dominant larger individual has bolder black markings, including the
> anterior ventrals, and a black ventral stripe ending in an anal spot (somewhat
> like a female viejeta in the Aqualog book), as well as a slight point to the
> dorsal fin.  The other large one is less vividly colored and lacks the ventral
> stripe and the pointed dorsal fin.  The smallest fish has a vague pectoral
> spot.  Are they all females?  Could the non-dominant larger fish mature into a
> male (and lose the pectoral spot), or is this just wishful thinking on my
> part.  What about the little one - can the sex be determined at this size?

You shouldn't have to wait too long to find out, as mine 
quickly grew into a fairly large size.  If you watch them 
you may be able to tell by their behaviour.

Hope this helps,
Ken.



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Red Apistos -Reply

by swaldron/slip.net (Steven J. Waldron)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

>Doug,
>
>This is an interesting topic.  Be curious to here what others have to say.
>In talking with some of the "experts" some theorize that perhaps they are
>slightly different color variations or regional variations, others say
>they are the same fish.
>
>I found four in this group, the ones you mentioned
>
>"Red Point" aka "Rotpunkt"
>aka "Puerto Narino"
>
>also in this group is Swartzsaum (?sp) also known as the black edged
>apisto.  Some of the Rotpunkt don't have the red on the face that I have
>seen in pictures of Red Point.....  So, far no one has straightened out
>the naming on these that I know of.
>
>Either way I think they are beautiful fish, the male had great coloration
>and the females were more the typical macmasteri complex group.  These
>guys have also been listed as possible bridging species between groups.

Hi folks,
I've seen hundreds of wild "rotpunkt" (aka Apistogramma sp. schwarzsaum,
aka A. sp. aff. taeniatum, aka A. weisei, aka A. sp. "puerto narino"?) in
my day and can say that they are extremely variable. If the origin of these
commercially wild caught fish is from a single population, then you will
find black edged "rot punkt", red edged rotpunkt, red faced rotpunkt, non
red faced, black edged rotpunk... ad infinitum (actually, it could be
quantified) together. It's a great case of an extremely polymorphic
species. Just know that if you are considering purchasing any of the above
"species" it will be the fish pictured on pg. 135-136 of Linke and Staeck
or a variant thereof. I prefer to call it "rotpunkt", I'm sure it can be
called many things.

Kathy's second point is interesting. I always considered the male rotpunkt
a bit more on the cacatuoides side of the spectrum than macmasteri. The
females show strong affinities to the macmasteri group. Great fish though,
adaptable to hard/alkaline and very productive.
- Steve



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Red Apistos -Reply

by "Kathryn Olson" <Kathryn.Olson/vmmc.org>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com



>>> Doug Brown <debrown-at-kodak.com> 02/25/98 09:15am >>>
Thanks! My male (A. sp. "Red Point" aka "Rotpunkt") looks practically
identical to the "Puerto Narino" picture Erik has posted at the Krib. It
seems some people think these are all the same fish. If anyone would care
to enlighten me on the differences between these and other similar
variations, as well as straightne out the naming convention here I would =
be
happy to listen!


Doug,

This is an interesting topic.  Be curious to here what others have to say. =
 In talking with some of the "experts" some theorize that perhaps they are =
slightly different color variations or regional variations, others say =
they are the same fish.

I found four in this group, the ones you mentioned=20

"Red Point" aka "Rotpunkt"
aka "Puerto Narino"=20

also in this group is Swartzsaum (?sp) also known as the black edged =
apisto.  Some of the Rotpunkt don't have the red on the face that I have =
seen in pictures of Red Point.....  So, far no one has straightened out =
the naming on these that I know of.

Either way I think they are beautiful fish, the male had great coloration =
and the females were more the typical macmasteri complex group.  These =
guys have also been listed as possible bridging species between groups.

 Interesting enough these females are in a select group that have a black =
spot at the base of the pectoral fin.  Only a few species have this and it =
can help in distinguishing this female from other species with similar =
coloration.  I think it is Kullander (afraid I am terrible with remebering =
names) that is doing work on this now and writing about it in Germany and =
doing a scheme to help identify stray apisto females that come in.  =
Haven't heard anything new about how they are going to resolve  issues =
like this one...ie several names applying to the same fish.  I have heard =
rumors that they are changing how the complexex/subcomplexes/groups/subgrou=
ps are arranged.  Depending on if they are a lumper or splitter this will =
be interesting. Sounds like the Germans may have a different group than =
what is here in the U.S. and what Mike Wise is working on.  With all the =
new species this will be ever changing.  Good luck to the fin counters and =
DNA analysis.  Can't wait for Uwe's book to see what is next.  Even then =
there are few new species after it went for publication.
A little digression here...sorry. =20

If you are interested, I did a review and summary of the literature on the =
topic of identifying and classification of apistogramma and how to use it =
to identify stray apisto's, need to update it for the latest new species =
(Rio Mamore and sunsets).  I was suppose to publish it and had it reviewed =
twice, but still need to send it in (afraid house remodeling and internship=
 got in the way)...I could send a hard copy on.  Don't want it on the net =
yet til I either get my but in gear and send it for publication or just =
say what the heck and put it up.

Kathy


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Apistogramma incognita

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Doug Brown is correct.  It is Apistogramma sp. Rotpunkt.  If the lighting is
correct and the male is actually this yellow instead of having a bluish cast then
it's A. sp. Rotpunkt (Puerto Narino).  Your male shows the name sake red spots
behind the gill cover on the flanks.  Your female looks like a macmasteri-group
female but doesn't have the diagnostic ventral patch found on all
macmasteri-group females.  The Rotpunkt Apisto exhibits features intermediate
between the regani-group and the macmasteri-group.  It's what I call a "bridge
species" between the two groups.  These fish have been collected in the Colombian
Amazon (Rio Caquetá) and Colombian Orinoco (uppermost Rio Guaviare, I think)
along the foot hills of the Andes.  This area is intermediate between areas
inhabited by regani-group species (eunotus-complex) and the macmasteri-group.
All of the various color forms (Rotpunkt (Red-spot/point), Schwarzsaum
(Black-edged/fringed/rimmed), Puerto Narino, and Blue-cheek) are white water
species that readily breed even in slightly alkaline, moderately hard water.
Males are highly polygamous and "sneeker males" are common.  I even had a male
take on the female's brood colors and pattern and join the female in guarding
fry.  I thought it was two females tending the fry, but they never succeeded in
raising any of them.  That's when I realized that I had a male in females
clothing.  The Rotpunkt apisto is very common in the hobby and makes an excellent
beginners fish.

Mike Wise

plasticolor-at-guate.net wrote:

> Hi everyone:
>
> I`m looking for some help to identify this species.  I have enclosed a URL
> with some images to avoid the proverbial 5,000 words.  The dates are a
> little mixed up and I will check and correct them.  There are five images.
> Image Nr. 1 is the male in breeding colors.  Image Nr. 2 is a juvenile, if
> I remember correctly (somethig I don`t do quite often), 40 days old.  Image
> Nr. 3 is the female and one of the juveniles, shortly before her second
> nesting cycle.  Image Nr. 4 is the female doing the "tail wiggle" to entice
> the male and Image Nr. 5 is another image of the male.  I hope these images
> can aid in their identification.
> The page is located at:
>
>         http://www.sigloxxi.com/fish/index.html
>
> Thanks,
>
> Peter Rockstroh
> plasticolor-at-guate.net
>
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New species?

by Jota Melgar <jsmelgar/compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998
To: "INTERNET:apisto/majordomo.pobox.com" <apisto/majordomo.pobox.com>

A. sp. "Pebas" or "Ampiyacu" is a recent introduction from Peru. I have not
seen the fish myself but what I have been told (Uwe Romer, personal com.)
is that is a macmasteri group species very similar to the Rotpunkt. The
most striking difference is that the Pebas shows pink hues during courtship
and breeding. The names Pebas and Ampiyacu refer to the collecting locality
off of the Rio Amazonas and midway between Iquitos and the Brazilian
border.

I haven't heard of the others ones yet. 

As far as localities for A. norberti, the only one where I have collected
is the one off of the Rio Tahuayo. Like Mike said A. norberti II is
probably A. atahualpa. 

Hope this helps,

Julio


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a.macmasteri

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Kaycy,

I'm not certain on what you base your A. macmasteri ID. The photo you show is of
a species I now have. It came to me as A. sp. Blue-cheek. This is a color form of
A. sp. Rotpunkt. A. macmasteri has a lateral band that usually is visible as a
row of broken spots. When it is continuous, the band starts as a very narrow
postorbital stripe (1 scale wide) that expands quickly at the lateral spot (to
cover over 2 scales in width) and then gradually narrows again toward the tail.
The lateral band of A. sp. Rotpunkt has a very regular width along the flanks
from just behind the operculum to the caudal peduncle spot, like in your photo.
In A. macmasteri, the dark areas of the scales on the lateral band form a series
of interconnected "v" shaped markings. Those of A. sp. Rotpunkt are more like
vertical lines offset from each other, like looking at a zipper. Your photo shows
this zipper-like band. The caudal peduncle spot on A. macmasteri is a small well
defined oval that covers 50% of the height of the caudal peduncle. The c.p. spot
on A. sp. Rotpunkt is smaller still (25-30% of the c.p. height) and very
irregular in outline, again like in your photo. Male A. macmasteri usually, but
not always, display red pigment along the upper and lower edges of the tail fin.
A. sp. Rotpunkt never does, to my knowledge. All of these color patterns are
diagnostic and not affected by the emotional state of the fish. Don't feel bad.
You aren't the first person to confuse these two species, especially at a small
size.

Mike Wise

djhanson@calweb.com wrote:

> Ken Laidlaw wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm not too sure on your fish labelled as A.macmasteri
> > (http://www.calweb.com/users/d/djhanson/macma.htm).
> > I think it looks more like A. sp rotpunkt colour variety.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ken.
> Yes, these are infact macmasteri. The male was young and wasn't very
> colorful due to being stressed. The brood caring female can sort of be
> seen in the photo too. But, it is a macmasteri.
>
> Kaycy
>
> http://www.calweb.com/users/d/djhanson/index.htm
>
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Apistogramma sp. Schwarzsaum

by "Newman, L" <Lee_Newman/bc.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Bill Hickman wrote:
> 
> I just picked up 6 juveniles today at a local club fish auction.  I asked at
> the auction but no one around me seemed to know anything about them.  I just
> looked for them in my American Cichlids I, Dwarf Cichlids and Dr. Axelrod's
> Mini-Atlas with no luck.  I guess they are new enough that they don't appear
> in my books or this name is incorrect.
> What do we know about this Apisto and what does the sp. mean in the name.
> Thanks in advance for anyone offering info.
> 
> Bill Hickman
> Mascoutah IL.
> hickmanb@accessus.net

Bill,

For some additional information. Kirt Zadnik, noted dwarf cichlid
expert, wrote an article that was published in the American Cichlid
Association's journal, the Buntbarsche Bulletin, #147 (December 1991).
The article is titled; The Black-fringe Apistogramma, Apistogramma sp.
'Schwarzsaum'.

Hope that helps.

Lee Newman
Vancouver, Canada.


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Apistogramma sp. Schwarzsaum

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Bob,

I, too, have wondered why A. sp. Rotpunkt, in all of its many color forms, hasn't
been described yet. It sits in an important phyletic junction between the
regani-group and the macmasteri-group. My guess is that this species is so well
understood in its form and placement that most taxonomists are comfortable with
its status as it now stands. Its common name is as good as a scientific name for
their purposes. They are more interested in some of the less well understood
complexes of species. It takes a lot of work and expense to scientifically
describe a species, so I imagine taxonomists want to put their resources where
they feel they'll do the most good.

Mike Wise

IDMiamiBob@aol.com wrote:

> Mike Wise writes:
>
> > As Eric indicated, A. sp. Schwarzsaum (Black-Rimmed) is merely a color form
> > of
> >  the undescribed species A. sp. Rotpunkt (Red-spot). This form was first
> >  introduced by Vierke as A. sp. aff. taeniatum in his book Dwarf Cichlids in
> > 1977.
>
> I don't get it.  I know that a lot of other species get described in
> significantly less than 20 years.  It's not like they are hard to come by.
> Any ideas what the limiting factor is here?
>
> Bob Dixon
>
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? about A. macmasteri

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Kathy,

It's Koslowski who wrote the article (Beiträge zur Unterscheidung von
Apistogramma-Weibchen (Contributions to the differentiation of Apistogramma females), in
Cichliden - Festschrift zum 25jährigen Jubiläum der DCG (Cichlids - Commemorative volume of
the 25th anniversary of the DCG), 1996, p.204-217). His Group 9 he characterizes as species
that (translation) "have a caudal peduncle spot, several  flank spots of which the lateral
spot isn't especially predominant, dorsal spots, and a pectoral spot (A. macmasteri, A.
viejita, A. hinge, A. hongsloi, A. guttata, A. sp. Rio Cairo, A. sp. Rotflecken, A. sp.
Schwarzkehl, & A. sp. Rotpunkt (only some specimens)". So you see that Koslowski, like you,
recognizes that only some A. sp. Rotpunkt females have this black spot at the base of the
pectoral fin.

This was only a preliminary report. He planned on making a more extensive study on the
subject. Does anyone know if he has written anything on it recently?

Mike Wise

kathy@thekrib.com wrote:

> Mike,
>
> I thought Kaycy's female fish looked like a rotpunkt female as well.  The
> only thing she is missing is the black spot at the base of the pectoral
> fin.  I thought on Kullander's (I think it was Kullander who was doing the
> series on IDing the female apisto's) article he divided the females into a
> group with the black spot at the base of the pectoral and this was a way
> of separating rotpunkt from other groups.  Is this a variable finding?  I
> seem to have found it on most of the rotpunk/swartzsaum etc, I have seen.
> This female does not have it but she sure looks like a rotpunkt.
>
> Thanks
> Kathy
>
> On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Mike & Diane Wise wrote:
> >
> > > I still don't know about the macmasteri though. But, the female I have
> > > on the site at:
> > > http://WWW.CALWEB.COM/users/d/djhanson/macma.htm
> > >
> > > according to the markings looks like a female rotpunkt. Does it to you?
> > > I'm looking at the female across from the male I pointed out above. 3rd
> > > down on the right on page 66.
> >
> > Yes, your "macmasteri" female is definitely a Rotpunkt female. Note that she does not
> > have any ventral stripe or patch. All macmasteri-group females show some black
> > pigmentation somewhere between the anus and the chin. Some rare female Rotpunkt
> > females will show this, too, like the one you mention in aqualog. She can easily be
> > separated from macmasteri-group females by the irregular shape of her caudal peduncal
> > spot.
>
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Ble Cheeks

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999
To: apisto/admin.listbox.com

Bob,

The Blue-cheek Apisto is most likely a color form of A. sp. Rotpunkt/Schwarzsaum.
It looks very much like a blue/yellowish bodied Schwarzsaum with almost entirely
metallic blue gill covers. This is an old timer in the hobby. No one knows where
it comes from, probably the headwaters of the Amazon or Orinoco rivers in
southeastern Colombia. Mark McMaster discussed it in the June 1977 issue of the
ACA's Buntbarsche Bulletin (#60) as follows:

ASG - 20. The Bluecheek Apisto was originally imported from Germany a few years
ago and was widely circulated under the incorrect designation Ap. weisei, which
again is a quite different fish. The usage of this name has diminished as fewer
people now keep the species. A sketch and discussion of this fish appear in BB 43
in an article by Sven Kullander. Males are greenish blue in the upper body,
whitish ventrally. The fins are yellow, edged in black, excepting the anal which
is very blue. Opercula are blue, and the lips are dark blue to black. No
published color photos exist, and no locale is known.

This is a pretty, but not flashy, fish in its own right that will probably breed
in your toilet (if you don't flush)! It is an excellent beginners apisto.

Mike Wise

IDMiamiBob@aol.com wrote:

> Can someone give me an alternative name for A. sp. "Blue Cheeks" or a
> location for a picture?  Or both maybe?
>
> Bob Dixon
>
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unusual behavior

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

I have several photos of 2 A. sp. Rotpunkt (Blue-cheek). Both are in female brood
dress and both sharing guard duty on a batch of fry. At first I thought it was 2
females sharing guard duty, but I had never seen or heard of this (2 females
jointly rearing a brood). Females are usually very territorial toward other
females. One of them however is actually a "sneaker male". The only difference is
a slightly paler yellow on the male. Before I discovered this I thought that it
was strange that the dominant female (not part of this pair) would successfully
raise her broods in this tank while the pair could not. Then I discovered the
male of the pair leading off fry and then leaving them to fend for themselves
(which didn't last long). When not in brood dress the sneaker male was quite
obvious by the lack of black in the ventrals and more blue in the flanks. When it
comes to breeding apistos, nothing surprises me anymore.

Mike Wise

Frauley/Elson wrote:

> Thomas Wilkinson wrote:
> >
> > I have noted a behavior in my elongate Apisto "Piacoa" species that I
> > have not seen before.  In a 10 gal.tank I have two females with free
> > swimming fry and several males.  One of the males now has taken on
> > female brood markings.  Except that he remains brown-gray he now
> > sports a single central side spot like the brooding females.  He also
> > lacks the black ventral fins.  He is herding around a swarm of fry
> > with one of the females and she is tolerating him.  I have never seen
> > this type of behavior before.
> > Tom
> > '
> Tom,
> That's really neat. I've been paying more attention to how male apistos
> behave with fry. I always vaguely noticed it while watching females, but
> for some reason, I started focussing on the males much more, and the
> wide range of behavior is entertaining. I've never seen it go as far as
> your sp. "piacoa".
> What group would you guess these guys to be from?
> -Gary
>
> BTW I have a young pair of mendezi. It's an extremely pretty little
> fish, much more than the photos had made me expect. The male has a red
> head, much like a Nigerian red P. taeniatus in colour.
>
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