You are at The Krib ->Apistogramma/Dwarf Cichlids [E-mail]

Pelvicachromis pulcher
aka the Krib

See also my Krib Diary, a disaster article written for the Greater Seattle Aquarium Society.

Contents:

  1. HELP Kribensis breeding
    by colemanr-at-garnet.berkeley.edu () (17 Nov 1993)
  2. SUMMARY: Kribensis info
    by jimh-at-ultra.com (Jim Hurley) (Thu, 20 Aug 92)
  3. Breeding Kribensis
    by colemanr-at-garnet.berkeley.edu () (27 Jun 1994)
  4. Kribs and competing sets of fry?
    by millerto-at-ava.bcc.orst.edu (Tom Miller) (29 Jul 1994)
  5. sex ratio in krib fry
    by colemanr-at-garnet.berkeley.edu (Ronald M. Coleman) (17 Feb 1995)
  6. How long for kribs to hatch?
    by Ben Rollins <rollins-at-violet.berkeley.edu> (14 Mar 1995)
  7. Breeding Krabinzies (African cyclids) (Sp.?)
    by raychah-at-mail.auburn.edu (Charles H. Ray, Jr.) (Fri, 19 May 1995)
  8. Kribensis Questions
    by bae/cs.toronto.edu (Beverly Erlebacher) (21 Jan 98)
  9. Pelvicachromis kribensis
    by Ken Laidlaw <K.Laidlaw/roe.ac.uk> (Tue, 17 Feb 1998)
  10. Pelvicachromis kribensis
    by WndrKdnomo/aol.com (Fri, 20 Feb 1998)
  11. Re: Pelv. taeniatus bandewouri vs. wouri
    by WndrKdnomo/aol.com (Fri, 20 Feb 1998)
  12. Pelvicachromis sacrimontis- again
    by "Darren J. Hanson" <djhanson/calweb.com> (Fri, 27 Mar 1998)
  13. Wild-Caugh Kribs - Inexperienced Keeper
    by "Darren J. Hanson" <djhanson/calweb.com> (Fri, 24 Apr 1998)
  14. Albinos
    by Michael Meyer <mikeymeyer/sprintmail.com> (Fri, 02 Oct 1998)
  15. question on kribs-female has purple belly, not red -Reply
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Thu, 08 Oct 1998)
  16. Soft water and Kribs
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Mon, 01 Feb 1999)
  17. Confused Krib?
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Wed, 27 Jan 1999)
  18. Need Help with breeding Kribs
    by "Kevin Jones" <spikes37/hotmail.com> (Sun, 31 Jan 1999)
  19. Soft water and Kribs
    by BigJohnW/webtv.net (John Wubbolt) (Sun, 31 Jan 1999)
  20. how to breed pelvachromis pulcher
    by BigJohnW/webtv.net (John Wubbolt) (Thu, 4 Mar 1999)
  21. kribensis spawning and care of young
    by "Alicia and Simon Voorwinde" <svavev/hunterlink.net.au> (Sun, 27 Jun 1999)
  22. Why did they kill the eggs!! :-(
    by "Helen Burns" <helen.burns/bigwig.net> (Wed, 5 Jan 2000)
  23. Krib breeding
    by "Barry Mitchell" <barry_mitchell/hotmail.com> (Sun, 25 Jun 2000)
  24. Krib genetics
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Mon, 10 Apr 2000)
  25. RE: kribs/wild
    by "Rob Mortensen" <rmortens/lbaop.org> (Tue, 4 Apr 2000)
  26. Ailing krib and Krib genetics
    by "Alicia and Simon Voorwinde" <svavev/hunterlink.net.au> (Tue, 28 Mar 2000)
  27. Ailing krib and Krib genetics
    by Frauley/Elson <fraulels/minet.ca> (Tue, 28 Mar 2000)
  28. Ailing krib and Krib genetics
    by WnyZman/aol.com (Tue, 28 Mar 2000)
  29. Ailing krib and Krib genetics
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Tue, 28 Mar 2000)
  30. Observations on tankmates for breeding Kribs
    by "Barry" <barry_mitchell/hotmail.com> (Wed, 25 Oct 2000)


Male


Female

Photos by Erik Olson


Male

Photo by Ken Laidlaw

HELP Kribensis breeding

by colemanr-at-garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Date: 17 Nov 1993

In article <1993Nov14.130056.1-at-anhep0.hep.anl.gov>,
Eric Vaandering <ewv-at-anhep0.hep.anl.gov> wrote:
>
>I have four kribensis in my community tank and I would like to ask a couple
of
>simple questions.  First, Do i have any hope of getting them to reproduce in
a
>community setup?
>
>Second, which fish are the females?  I have two with yellow on their dorsals
>and much more colorful bellies (red and a deep purple).  The other two are
>larger, have more of a dorsal spike but are much less colorful.

Yes, you have lots of hope of getting them to breed.  Your problem is more 
likely going to be, what to do when they do breed.  Some kribensis parents
can be REALLY protective and most will chase all the other fish to the
other end of the tank.  I've had a pair keep several much larger cichlids
completely at bay, confined to one-third of a large tank.  

As to which are the females, the ones with the rounded red and deep purple
bellies are the females.  And, if they are really deep purple, the females
are probably ready to breed.   Take a 3" flowerpot, knock out the bottom
and break it in half (even roughly will do).  Scoop a little depression 
in your gravel and place the half pot over it -- a breeding pair will 
usually adopt such a pot almost immediately.

             /------\
            /         \
         ---           ---
            -----------

You will know if things are progessing if you see the female spending a lot
of time in the pot, and particularly if she seems to be sealing in the 
front entrance a bit (ideally they need entrances on both the front and
back).  She will make it so just her little face pokes out if possible.
Next, look for about 30 to 50 orangish eggs stuck to the inner roof of
the pot.  
-- Ron Coleman
   colemanr-at-garnet.berkeley.edu

SUMMARY: Kribensis info

by jimh-at-ultra.com (Jim Hurley)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92

A little while back I asked for info on kribensis. Here's
the promised summary of the email I received. Thanks to all
who sent me messages, I will probably get some in the near future
when my new tanks gets stabilized.

As usual there is some conflicting advice here, we all need to
find some things out for ourselves, and water conditions, etc.
vary quite a bit and may have important consequences in fish behavior.

Acquisition
   Get 6 - 10 young, this should be sufficient to form a breeding pair.
   Better, find a dealer that has a breeding pair. Somewhat difficult
   to sex, usually size differences is the key. Others say they're
   easy to sex, the females are larger and have pink bellies.
   In the store they may look dull, but they brighten up with
   good care.

Tank locale
   They like to stay on the bottom and like to hide in rock caves.

Tankmates
   A small schooling fish, like cardinal tetras, make good dither fish.
   The kribs are shy and having some 'braver' fish will make them 
   more visible. Lots of hiding places also help.

Tank features
   Natural rock caves, broken clay pots, driftwood roots, etc. 
   They like plants, but don't burrow or harm them. 
   Some people say a 15g is OK, others say it's a bit small,
   but a 20g-30g tank is probably OK for a pair. If the tank is too small
   the female may kill the male or other tankmates.

Size
   Can get 3-4" long.

Breeding:
   Feed lots of live food, earthworms, clean water.
   The pH seems critical in determining the sex ratio of the fry.
   The Loiselle dwarf cichlid book goes into this.
   They mate for life and look after the brood. Very aggressive
   and territorial at breeding time, but rather docile at other
   times.
-- 
Jim Hurley --> jimh-at-ultra.com  ...!ames!ultra!jimh  (408) 922-0100
Ultra Network Technologies / 101 Daggett Drive / San Jose CA 95134

Breeding Kribensis

by colemanr-at-garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Date: 27 Jun 1994
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria

In article <2udun9$1a7-at-Maluku.Jou.UTexas.EDU>,
Victor Menayang <victor-at-Maluku.Jou.UTexas.EDU> wrote:
>Tom Miller <millerto-at-ava.bcc.orst.edu> wrote:
>>
>>Shivering and bending in u-shape is not submissive behavior, it's courtship.
>
>Then, the many female Kribs I saw doing that between females must
>be lesbian :-)
>Seriously, I know at least one book that says that it's courtship,
>but female Kribs do display that behavior to other females. That's
>why I hesitated to call it courtship behavior.
>
>
One of the things that makes kribensis such a wonderful fish is that the
females compete for the males (and vice versa).  The bending and u-shape
behaviour that females do is neither submissive behaviour, nor courtship
behaviour; rather it is competitive behaviour.  The females are in essence
fighting with each other over who makes the better female.  It is the
equivalent of mountain sheep ramming their heads together or male frogs
wrestling and calling.  Notice the way that the females cup their pelvic
fins next to their bodies when they do this: the colour of the fins
serves to make the females look larger and rounder than they really are.
I strongly suspect that the females are attempting to look as fecund (ie.,
containing as many eggs as possible) as they can, and they show this
to other females, and to the males.  
  What a great fish!
-- Ron Coleman
   colemanr-at-garnet.berkeley.edu



Kribs and competing sets of fry?

by millerto-at-ava.bcc.orst.edu (Tom Miller)
Date: 29 Jul 1994
Newsgroup: alt.aquaria

>of eggs under the ole flower pot.  The first set of fry are about 2 months old,
>so are still pretty small.  The adults are already keeping the first set of 
>fry away from the nest.  Will they keep the old fry away from the food also,
>once the new clutch hatches?  The old fry are still too small to make it in
>my main tank, and I'm fresh out of space and cash to set up a new tank.  
>What should I do?!  Will the adults protect the new clutch sufficiently in the
>main tank, or do I risk having them lose it or ignore it because of the move?

In the eyes of the parents, the old fry have changed from children to just a
bunch of fish.  The parents will treat them the same way as any other fish.
They will keep them away from the new fry (for good reasons).  The parents
will compete with the older fry for the available food.  That probably won't
be a major concern though.

Depending on the occupants of the main tank, the new fry (and parents) might
be able to survive there.

What you should do, is entirely up to you.  In another 2 months you will have
another batch of fry (and 2 months after that...etc, etc, etc).  So unless you
are going to get some more tanks soon, you are going to lose some fry.  There
may be some short term solutions depending on size of tanks and occupants.
Someday you will either have to buy more tanks or give up trying to save all
the fry.

Tom
millerto-at-bcc.orst.edu









sex ratio in krib fry

by colemanr-at-garnet.berkeley.edu (Ronald M. Coleman)
Date: 17 Feb 1995
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria

Paul Chapman (pchapman-at-mdo.nofc.forestry.ca) wrote:
: Keywords:
:  
: I'm looking for advice or a good reference on balancing the ratio of
: males to females in my krib offspring.  I have raised several sets of
: kribensis fry in three nursery tanks (10 gal) and found that only about
: 5% are male.  as the fastest growers passed the one inch mark I tended
: to remove them in pairs.  all the fastest growers were male and the
: rest seem to be all female now.  Is gender determined at fertilization
: or can my tank conditions be affecting the sex? If the latter what
: conditions affect sex in what way?  I have several reference books but
: can only find examples of swordtails changing sex.

: Thanks, Paul     pchapman-at-mdo.nofc.forestry.ca


Hi Paul,
  I believe the reference you want is

Rubin, DA (1985) Effect of pH on sex ratio in cichlids and a poecilliid 
(Teleostei).  Copeia 1985:233-235

But, as they say, the plot thickens.  Work in our lab (Dr. Barlow's here
at Berkeley) has shown that cichlids may not 'decide' their sex for quite
some time after fertilization.  Sex in cichlids is not determined 
chromosomally and may be determined socially and this may not occur until
well into the juvenile stage.  Neat eh?
-- Ron Coleman
   colemanr-at-garnet.berkeley.edu



How long for kribs to hatch?

by Ben Rollins <rollins-at-violet.berkeley.edu>
Date: 14 Mar 1995
Newsgroup: alt.aquaria

sidles-at-u.washington.edu (John Sidles) wrote:

> (1) How long does it take the eggs to hatch?
About a week and a half until they're free-swimming. If you can see 
eggs. you'll see them wriggling for about a week before they start
cruising around the tank.

> (2) The kribensis are still very young, only about 4 cm long.
>     Will early spawning stunt their growth?
That I can't help you with. I wouldn't have thought so - it sounds
like the kind of tall tale my Sunday School teacher would have told
me ;-)
> 
> (3) The parents are pretty agressive now... but can they
>     really expect to raise their brood?
Just you watch them!!! I have my kribs in a tank with tiger barbs,
a ram, a pl*co and rasboras, and I don;t think they've lost one yet.
If you can keep a night-light on (nothing too bright) once the fry
are free-swimming, that will help the parents at night.
> 
> (4) What do we feed the kids?
5 vegetables and two fruit Oh, the _kribs_...;-) Depends: if the tank
has been set up for a long time, there will probably be a reasonable
amount of organic matter for them. If not, you can get one of the
very fine flake foods of liquid foods for fry, and in a couple of
weeks, you can try hatching some baby brine shrimp.
> 
> Thanks for the tips!
 Enjoy the fish! They're great fun when they're spawning...


> John Sidles on behalf of Nathan.

Cheers,
Ben



Breeding Krabinzies (African cyclids) (Sp.?)

by raychah-at-mail.auburn.edu (Charles H. Ray, Jr.)
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria

In article <3ojiok$de2-at-canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>, langsta-at-cc.umanitoba.ca wrote:

> Can anyone help me!!!
> I am trying to breed Kribinzies (spelled incorrect), and I need so
information on how to breed them.
> 
> I would appreciate any and all information!!!
> 
> Thank you!!

The Kribensis, _Pelviachromis pulcher_, or Krib is extremely easy to
induce to breed.   A pair can be set up in a 10 or 15 gallon well-planted
tank with soft, neutral water.  Kribs are termed cave spawners, i.e. they
normally spawn in either a natural cavity or one of their own
construction.  This is best accomplished in the aquarium by placing either
a flower pot, cocoanut shell or short length of 2 inch pvc pipe into the
aquarium.  The flower pot should be partially buried in the gravel with
the open end down leaving a small opening.  If you use a cocoanut shell,
cut off one end to leave an opening 1-1/2 - 2 inches in diameter and lay
the shell on its side (of course you have cleaned the shell thoroughly
before introducing it into your tank).  A short length of PVC works just
as well but is not as aesthetically pleasing.  Feed the pair generously
with live and frozen foods and they should spawn if mature.  Water
temperature does not have to be extremely warm, my fish are kept in
relatively cool water, never greater than 76 F.  Do not place rocks on a
gravel substrate and allow the kribs to construct their own cave, these
often collapse and can kill your kribs.  Kribs also demonstrate the bad
habit of swimming into any small opening where sometimes they may become
trapped.  I recently had the airline tubing disengage from a sponge
filter, a krib swam into the filter outlet tube and died before I
discovered the problem.  Kribs normally produce 50 - 150 eggs but I have
had large females produce in excess of 350 eggs.  Normally the parents
will cooperate in raising and protecting their fry.  However, sometimes
one parent will not tolerate the presence of the other after the fry hatch
and it is best to remove one of the parents.  I currently have a male
single-handedly raising a group of about 50 fry in my 180 gallon community
tank.  He will not allow the female near the fry.  However, the tank is
large enough to allow her to escape his attacks.  If you are keeping your
kribs in a 10 or 15 gallon tank and do not remove one of the incompatible
parents, the results may be death of one of the parents.  The young fry
are easily raised on almost any food and seem to be able to prosper on
simply the various things that accumulate on the bottom of their tank. 
The fry, as they grow, and the adults to a lesser degree, relish an
occasional feeding of green filamentous algae.  I feed my kribs such algae
about once per week.  I feed my young fry a mixture of live foods
(primarily daphnia, cyclops), powdered dry food and shaved portions of
frozen adult brine shrimp.  At about 1/2 inch in length I introduce a beef
heart mixture and green filamentous algae into their diet.  It is critical
at this stage to provide adequate space and frequent water changes,
otherwise growth will be stunted.  I usually separate the fry from the
parents when the fry reach abou;t 1/2 inches in length.  At this time I
usually throw a handful of washed, crushed oystershells into their tank.  

Hope this helps.
-- 
Charles Ray
Dwarf Cichlidiot 
raychah-at-mail.auburn.edu


Kribensis Questions

by bae/cs.toronto.edu (Beverly Erlebacher)
Date: 21 Jan 98
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids

In article <34C57805.23E1-at-onr.com>, Ender  <ender-at-onr.com> wrote:
>Thanks to those of you who answered the lost message I posted.  It looks
>like I am leaning towards the Kribs at this time but would like to know
>a little more about them.  WHere is a good place for me to find
>information about them (preferably on the web)?  I would like to know
>what kind of water they need, what other fish I can put with them, and
>how easy they are to spawn.  I would also like to know what a good price
>is to look for? Thanks in advance for any help.

Unlike some of their close relatives, kribs are tolerant of a wide range
of water parameters.  Their range extends from soft, acid blackwater streams
into the upper part of the Niger River delta, so they are happy in water
that is hard, alkaline or even somewhat brackish.  However, if the pH moves
very far from neutral, you will get predominantly one sex in the offspring.
I think alkaline water gives mainly males, while acid water gives mainly
females.  They are river fish, so they need clean water.

They will get along with most other fish of similar or smaller size.  All
the kribs I have had have been very good at protecting their fry without
causing any visible damage to other fish in a lightly populated tank.  It
helps if there are a lot of plants.  You will need a large tank, however,
if you intend to keep more than one pair together.

They are one of the easiest cichlids to spawn.  Give them a cave made of
a piece of coconut shell or flowerpot and feed them well, and if they are
old enough they will do it.  They are excellent parents, too.  Even after
all these years I love to watch the parents interact and take care of their
fry.  The female tends to be sort of bossy and officious, and the male is
sort of bumbling but tries to be helpful.  In general, the female tends the
fry and the male guards them and keeps other fish away from them.

I recommend you get a young pair, old enough to sex but not completely mature.
This will give them a chance to get to know each other and pair up.  Kribs
will spawn as young as 6-8 months old, so you won't have too long to wait.
I suggest you avoid the wild-caught fish that sometimes appear - they are
not all P.pulcher - I've seen some other species sold as "wild-caught kribs",
and you can't count on getting two fish of the same species, either!

Young, domestically bred fish are inexpensive.  Be sure to get healthy
fish from a tank of all healthy fish and you can't go far wrong.  In nature
they mostly eat invertebrates.  They will go nuts for any kind of worm
including earthworms, but will eat most kinds of dry food, and even nibble
at zucchini and otehr veggies.




Pelvicachromis kribensis

by Ken Laidlaw <K.Laidlaw/roe.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Hi,

The species that gave the name Kribensis is in the 
hobby today, it is P.taeniatus. 

 According to Baensch P.taeniatus was once called 
P.kribensis (due to it's collection locality).  P.pulcher 
then became very widely available and people latched on to 
the krib term as is the common name today, but taeniatus is 
the true kribensis.  Although not as common as pulcher is 
can be found though you may have to go mail order.

Regards,
Ken

On Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:47:37 EST Tsuh Yang Chen 
<anggrek-at-juno.com> wrote:

> while we are on the topic of P., does anyone know why the species that
> gave the name "krib" is not common in the hobby?
> 
> tsuh yang chen, new york city
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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*****************************
Ken Laidlaw
Royal Observatory, Edinburgh
Tel: 0131-668 8100
Fax: 0131-668 1130
Web: http://www.roe.ac.uk
*****************************




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Pelvicachromis kribensis

by WndrKdnomo/aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998
To: anggrek/juno.com, owner-apisto/listbox.com, apisto/majordomo.pobox.com


In a message dated 2/17/98 12:49:45 AM, anggrek-at-juno.com wrote:

<<while we are on the topic of P., does anyone know why the species that
gave the name "krib" is not common in the hobby?
>>

     The fish that was originally introduced to the trade as P. kribensis (or
krib) had its named changed to P. pulcher (due to the rules of nomenclature.
The same species had been described under two different names.  Since it had
been first described as P. pulcher this name has precedence, even though the
name P. kribensis was well established in the trade.   Along the way, the
genus name was changed from Pelmatachromis (sp?) to Pelvicachromis, for
simular reasons.)
     That being said, I'm not sure why you say that it is not common in the
hobby.  Locally, at least, it is relatively common, and usually sold under the
name Krib or Kribensis (I guess old habits are hard to break).
     Hope this helps.  I also hope I have interpreted your question correctly.
If I have, this is the correct answer.  P. taeniatus, as another post has it,
was never introduced to the hobby as kribensis, at least not widely.  It may
have been incorrectly identified in the literature at some point, and I think
that is what the reference in Baensch  is referring to.
     Jeff
     WndrKdnomo-at-aol.com


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Re: Pelv. taeniatus bandewouri vs. wouri

by WndrKdnomo/aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998
To: sawhite/bicnet.net, owner-apisto/listbox.com, apisto/majordomo.pobox.com


In a message dated 2/17/98 12:45:46 PM, sawhite-at-bicnet.net wrote:

<<Bandewouri is a locality from the southern part of taeniatus' range. The
forms from Kienke, Nyong, Loukundje, and Dehane (even the Lobe and Grand
Batanga) are all similar forms.  The southern forms are considered the
"true" kribensis.>>

Now I'm confused.  I just made a post in reply to an earlier question about
"kribensis" stating that it is now know as "pulcher".  Certainly the fish I
first saw, and spawned, as "kribensis" in ca. 1970 were the same as is now
known as pulcher, definitly *not* taeniatus.
 
The only answer I can think of is that the fish originally  *described* as
kribensis was really a morph of taeniatus, (presumably previously described)
and that when "pulcher" was introduced, it was misnamed "kribensis",
compounding the error.  Am I making any sense? And, can anyone clear this up
for me.?

Jeff
WndrKdnomo-at-aol.com

PS .  I am a couple of days behind in my E-mail, I hope this hasn't already
been covered.  If so I apologize .


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Pelvicachromis sacrimontis- again

by "Darren J. Hanson" <djhanson/calweb.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

>Hi Steve,
>I never spawned mine, as they never got along for long enough to
>reproduce. I found them aggressive. Behavior-wise, they reminded me more
>of P. humilis than taenies, pulcher or subocellatus. I've never kept
>wild kribs, but my two pairs of purples were brawlers in all possible
>combinations. My feeling was my 36 inch tanks were small for them, but
>since my pairs were wild from the same location (Cross River), maybe not
>all purples are like that.
>Good luck with them.
>-Gary
I had two pairs of wild kribs and the best way I found to get them to pair
off without killing one another was to put them in a 55 gallon community
tank. Once a male and female paired off, I removed them to another 55
community tank so that they would be the only kribs in that tank. I have
spawned regular kribs in the past and found that the best way to spawn them
was for them to be in a 55 gallon community tank and let nature take its
course. I have tried spawning them by themselves in 20's but without any
luck and then one or the other usually ended up killing the other. So now I
keep them in community tanks and only one pair per tank. I don't know if
this would work for the other Pelvicachromis's.

Kaycy


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Wild-Caugh Kribs - Inexperienced Keeper

by "Darren J. Hanson" <djhanson/calweb.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Heather, I have a pair of wild kribs and an extra female. My pair is in a 55
gallon community tank. I have found in the past years of keeping and
breeding this pair (and the other pair before losing the male last month),
that they do best in a community environment. I have tried spawning them by
themselves in 20 gallon tanks only to have either the male kill the female
or vise-versa. They continue to spawn in the 55 and I either take the eggs
or put a divider in the tank to separate them from the other tank
inhabitants. They do very well this way. This way may not work for everyone.
I have been spawning them for the past 3 years in this fashion. If I take
the eggs I hatch them artificially and then release them to a 55 gallon tank
once they are free swimming. If I leave the eggs with the parents I take the
fry once they become free swimming enough to start straying from the parents
and the parents aren't able to keep them in a group. (Once they get to this
age - 3 weeks free swimming - they start trying to get to the other side of
the tank and get eaten.)

Just some different info. I hope this helps some.

Kaycy


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Albinos

by Michael Meyer <mikeymeyer/sprintmail.com>
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Beverly Erlebacher wrote:
> 
> > Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:10:41 -0400
> > From: Doug Brown <debrown-at-kodak.com>
> >
> > I had mentioned albino apistos before and apparently no one has seen any?
> > Just got back from an LFS and they had a tank full of albino kribs. I don't
> > know if this is newsworthy but I haven't seen them before. Red eyes and
> > white of course but with pretty normal looking fin coloration. I don't know
> > who would want to breed these much less buy them!
> 
> Albino kribs have been around for at least 20 years.  An interesting thing
> about them is that males of either color prefer albino females, but females
> of either color prefer normal color males.  The theory is that the red belly
> patch is powerfully attractive to a male looking for a mate, and it shows
> up much better on an albino female.  I don't think anyone has determined
> which aspect of the male's appearance looks good to a female, but this suggests
> that it is something that is more visible in the normal coloration.
> 
> I have yet to see an albino fish that looked better to me than a normal
> wild-type form, but someone must like them, because a lot are being produced.
> I even saw some albino neon tetras last year.  Of course, albinos are more
> amenable to being dyed in lurid colors... :-(
> 

One other interesting thing about albino kribs is that the gene that
carries the albino trait is what they call an "incomplete
dominant"(Langhammer 1982).  When you cross the albino fish with the
normal variety you get a different ratio of albino than if it were a
recessive gene.  There is also a difference in color between a krib that
gets two doses of the albino gene (homozygous) vs one dose of the albino
gene (heterozygous). The heterozygous fish will actually have pigment in
the fins and possibly in the eye as well.  
I have also noticed that they sometimes do not see very well.  My
current fish will run from an oncoming net, but my previous albinos
didn't see the net till they were in it!
I have dabbled around crossing these in the past and it is a fun
experiment.  I have recently picked up 5 fairly large males.  I wish
there were some females but I'll get some sometime.  The irridescence on
these males is more noticable than most I've seen.  

Michael


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question on kribs-female has purple belly, not red -Reply

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com



William Vannerson wrote:

> >>Definitely sound like a Taeniatus to me. Lucky you!!!<<
>
> Only if the male's a Taeniatus too.  Would a Taeniatus female and a male
> pulcher cross?

Back in the late 70's (am I showing my age?) I lost my only male of Pv. taeniatus
(Moliwe), leaving me with 5 females. For the next 3 years these female danced
around several Pv. pulcher males to no avail. Things changed for the males when
female Pv. pulchers were added, so I'd say that the two species are sufficiently
separated to avoid cross-breeding. Staeck lists them in two different
Pelvicachromis species-groups.

Mike Wise

>
>
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Soft water and Kribs

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Mike,

The Common Krib, Pelvicachromis pulcher, is found in the Niger River drainage, in
areas with super soft water to its delta that can be considered almost brackish.
It really doesn't matter what the water is to them as long as it's wet. Jim
Langhammer (Curator Emeritus, Belle Isle Aquarium, Detroit) and Paul Loiselle
write that this species gives even sex ratios at around pH 7. This is why it's
been a commercial success since the 1960s while the other others disappeared, due
to a lack of understanding the effects of pH on the different species of kribs.

Mike Wise

Michael D Nielsen wrote:

> Is a hardness of about 70-80 ppm to soft for spawning Kribs?  I read they
> like "medium-hard", is this correct?
>
> If I should change the  hardness what should I go up to?
>
> THanks for the info.
>
> whomareyou?whomareyou?whomareyou?whomareyou?whomareyou?whomareyou?whomarey
> h                                                                        o
> o    Mike Nielsen                                                        u
> m    Department of Geography         THE OPTIMIST BELIEVES WE LIVE IN    ?
> a    Harvill Bldg Box #2             THE BEST OF ALL POSSIBLE WORLDS;    w
> r    Tucson, AZ 85721                THE PESSIMIST FEARS THIS IS SO      h
> e    mnielsen@u.arizona.edu                                              o
> y                                                                        m
> ou?whomareyou?whomareyou?whomareyou?whomareyou?whomareyou?whomareyou?whom?
>
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Confused Krib?

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Would you believe 8 months? Being a lazy aquarist I've had this happen on many
occasions. Only when the fry become sexually mature does the male take notice of
the other males "invading" his territory.

Mike Wise

K & D Martin wrote:

> Michael, I had the same thing happen with the last spawn of my p. pulchers -
> the dad is taking care of the brood, the mom wants to spawn again but he
> isn't giving her a second look at the moment.  The fry are about 5 weeks old
> now.  Anyone know how long they care for them before they aer left to fend
> for themselves?
>
> kym
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Meyer <mikeymeyer@sprintmail.com>
> To: apisto@majordomo.pobox.com <apisto@majordomo.pobox.com>
> Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 12:59 AM
> Subject: Confused Krib?
>
> >Just wanted to share my interesting experience with my current Kribs.
> >At work I keep a 20 gallon long tank with a pair of Albino Kribs.  This
> >is their second spawn.  The first was normal with around 20 fry. The
> >female would herd the babies all around the tank and treated the male
> >pretty well.  I have had female kill their mates before.  On occaison he
> >would watch the babies for short periods of time.
> >This spawn was very different.  When I left work Thursday for my unusual
> >3 day weekend, I noticed the female would not come out of her flowerpot
> >cave.  I suspected eggs had been laid since she had been doing this for
> >a few days.  When I arrived at work on Monday, I hurriedly looked in the
> >tank and saw Dad with 30+ babies. Yippee! As the day wore on I noticed
> >the female would not come out of her flowerpot.  The one time she did
> >the male chased around for a couple laps around the tank and back into
> >her cave.  As of Tuesday nite the male has taken sole custody of his
> >litter.  So I guess I have a Mr. Mom!
> >As for the geneticists out there - apparently one of the fish is not
> >fully albino (Kribs have unusual genetic characteristics that fascinate
> >me).  I came with 13 pigmented fish, 7 full albinos and 14 albino colors
> >with black eyes.
> >I saw a recent post about Pelv. sacrimontis (giant krib) and I was
> >wondering if any other Pelvicachromis species has been documented in
> >albino form.  I know many purists hate albino, but I would love to see
> >an albino Pelv taeniatus in breeding coloration to see what colors would
> >show.  It would also be interesting to see if the albino gene is an
> >incomplete dominate as in the case with Pelv. pulcher.
> >I volunteer to do the experiments if anyone has the fish!
> >Michael
> >
> >
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Need Help with breeding Kribs

by "Kevin Jones" <spikes37/hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com


>My question is... should I go get another male (possibly mature) and 
start
>from scratch or should I give the female some more time and wait to see 
if
>there ARE any eggs?

Sounds like a good idea, I've had female kribs seem to completely 
abandon their spawning site only to find a mass of fry ten days after 
spawning with the "neglective" mother gaurding them furiously (with a 
little help from the male)
If you do end up buying a new male, buy it from a different store than 
the female was purchased.  Kribs unfortunately have been so heavily 
inbred, it's amazing what some fresh genes can do for the colour of 
future generations.  My kribs were not exactly prize winners, but they 
were bouht from different stores (thus different wholesalers) and their 
offspring have turned out great.

Kevin


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Soft water and Kribs

by BigJohnW/webtv.net (John Wubbolt)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Hello Mike 
No water as soft as you talk about ( 70 - 80ppm) is not to soft to spawn
Kribs.   My water out of the tap is 6.8 to 7.0 pH and about 60ppm
hardness.  I've never had problems spawning kribs in it.  What will have
because of the soft water is you'll probably get more females then males
as a sex ratio.   This is what I ending up getting about 60% females.
I actually liked this because I could trade or sell trios instead of
pairs.   I also spawn Pelvicachromis Taeniatus Moliwe and Kienke in my
tap water.   No problems with them either.   Slightly harder water will
probably only change your sex ratio of the offspring in the opposite
percentage as in soft water.   Good luck with  the Kribs.   They've
always been one of my favorites even as common as they are in pet shops.
Nice kribs are always a joy to keep.
John Wubbolt


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how to breed pelvachromis pulcher

by BigJohnW/webtv.net (John Wubbolt)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999
To: apisto/admin.listbox.com

Hello Jonathan
Your tap water is just fine for breeding Kribs.
Actually you should get a nice ratio of male and females from your pair
in this pH.   I would recommend a temperature of about 78 F.   This is
what I use as a breeding temperature for just about everything except
rams.   Them I keep just a little warmer.   I would go ahead and set upt
the 30 gallon tank for the breeder tank.   Use a layer of small sized
gravel through out the tank with a depth of about 1.5 inches deep.  This
gives the pair something to dig pits in when the fry become wigglers.
You can use plants if you want or not.   Set up a few caves or flower
pots in the tank to give the pair a choice of where they will want to
spawn.   It will also give your female a place to hide if she's not
ready for spawning and the male is.   Feed the pair a good variety of
foods with some live foods to get them conditioned for spawning.   Then
just wait for mother nature to take it's course.   You'll just love the
colors of your pair when they're getting ready to spawn and are in brood
care coloration.    Kribs are one of the best looking color wise fish
you can spawn.   I've never been disappointed with any pair I've ever
had.   They always look good.   
    The reason I suggested the 30 gallon over the 10 gallon tank is that
you won't have to move the fry out when they get to the 1/2 inch size
and the adults want to spawn again.   
Good luck with them.   Keep the list posted to your success.   
John Wubbolt




kribensis spawning and care of young

by "Alicia and Simon Voorwinde" <svavev/hunterlink.net.au>
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999
To: <apisto/admin.listbox.com>

Hi Russell,

Finally a subject that I know plenty about - Kribs are my favourite dwarfs !
I've just managed to get a pair of albinos and a pair of taeniatus ( variety
unknown - see other post by me if you know what it is ) to add to my
collection.

Firstly - you said you had them in a 10 gallon tank and there were about 200
of them - You'll need a bigger tank ! I wouldn't go anything smaller than 30
gallon for them. Commercial growers/breeders use upwards of 75 gallons to
try and speed up their growth rate ( i.e. turnover ). Krib fry grow slow
enough as it is but when they are cramped together they become even slower
growing, not to mention the exponential increase in the bioload in your
tank. This is why you often see 'stunted' krib in many fish stores. It may
be better to practice culling procedures to thin out the babies to about 50,
because;

1. You are going to have to get rid of them all at some stage when they are
big enough and not many places will take 200 at a time.

2. You'll get better quality fish because of reduced competition for food
and space.

3. The water quality in your tank will be easier to manage.

4. Most of the babies will survive - In my last lot, I counted 51 wrigglers
and I sold 50 babies 6 weeks later.

5. It won't be such a big strain on your krib parents. Spawning is a
stressful event in the lives of any fish and at these times the fish may
succumb to ailments that they would normally be able to ward off - so any
reduction in stress level has to be good.

Which brings me to the next point - the parents.

Every single time I have spawned kribs the male has always been driven away
after the fry have been free swimming for about 4 weeks. In one case the
female was so insistent that the male vacate the premises that she killed
him ! The mother is perfectly able to raise the fry ( so long as it is not
200 of them ! ) by herself and seems to prefer it this way. The male will
continue to defend the young but his efforts will not be appreciated by the
female and his duties will be reduced to perimeter patrol. So I'd remove
him, especially in a 10 gallon tank where he'd only get in the way - my last
lot were ok together in a 30 gallon and they had 50 odd fry.

Hope this helps - if you'd like to know more - you can email me or visit me
web site ( shown below ) to see my kribs and how I do it.

Regards,
Simon Voorwinde
=========================================================
svavev@hunterlink.net.au
http://thecichlidtank.cjb.net
=========================================================




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Why did they kill the eggs!! :-(

by "Helen Burns" <helen.burns/bigwig.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000
To: <apisto/majordomo.pobox.com>

Phil,
If the Kribs are remaining in the spawning site they may be tending to the
wrigglers.
As to the Jewel spawn I don't know.  Did you actually witness her eating the
eggs.  When the female knows the eggs are hatching she has to give them a
helping hand so to speak. This gives you the impression she is eating the
eggs where in fact she is removing the wrigglers from the eggs and then she
places them 'somewhere safe'.
What catfish (if any) do you have in the same tank?
As Gabriella suggested yesterday remove excess species.  If the present tank
is large enough place a divider in the tank then you will have two species
tanks.  Ensure filtration is adequate on both sides of the divider.  You
will of course require at least another tank to eventually rear the fry when
success happens which it will with those two particular species.
Helen

> The kribs eggs are all gone and yesterday the jewel mother ate all of her
> eggs!! It was very sad. The kribs are still in their nesting home but the
> jewels have started to roam the tank again.
>
> Any help for the future would be appreciated.
>
> Phil :-(




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Krib breeding

by "Barry Mitchell" <barry_mitchell/hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000
To: erik/thekrib.com

I'm having an unusual experience with a pair of kribs.  I was wondering if 
you had heard of it before.

I have a pair of kribs in a 55 gallon planted tank.  Seven days ago they 
showed up with 12 fry after hiding out for a few days.  Apparently, they had 
nested in a small pot I have under a large piece of driftwood.

Today, they are nested again in a different pot.  The five fry surviving 
from the previous hatch are inhabiting the new nest with momma and at least 
50 eggs.

I've not come across any mention of similar behavior from kribs.  I was 
wondering if you had ever heard of it before.

The pair work together very well.  They trade off baby sitting duty every 
few minutes.  The male is very territorial.  I've noticed today that the 
male is welcomed in the nest when the female makes quick trips out for food.

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Krib genetics

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000
To: Apisto Mailing List <apisto/majordomo.pobox.com>

My server has been shutting down on me the past few days while sending email so I
don't know if the following has reached the mailing list. So I'll re-post it.

Mike Wise

> Piabinha@aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> >  In a message dated 3/28/2000 4:19:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> >  apistowise@bewellnet.com writes:
> >
> >  > Many of the color populations may actually be separate "sibling species"
> >  >  that deserve to be preserved.
> >
> >  ok, mike, nobody really cleared it up for me before when i asked about the> true
> > "kribensis."  at the time, i was wondering if kribensis was a distinct
> >  sp. not in the hobby or was it a junior, invallid synonym.  people led me to
> >  believe taht the latter was correct.  so there's a vallid sp. named kribensis?
>
> Tsuh Yang,
>
> This depends on who you talk to. Some history is needed. Boulenger described Pv.
> taeniatus from Nigeria (Etheops River) in 1901 as Pelmatochromis taeniatus. The
> fish most people call "Pv. taeniatus Kienke" was originally described by Boulenger
> in 1911 from the Cameroon (Kribi) as Pelmatochromis kribensis. Pellegrin described
> a subspecies of P. kribensis as P. k. calliptera in 1929 from the southern
> Cameroon (near Lokoundje). Meinken described a commercially imported Nigerian form
> as Pelmatochromis klugei in 1960 but reduced it to a subspecies of P. kribensis
> (P. k. klugei) in 1965. These are the taeniatus complex of species that we know in
> the hobby today as Pelvicachromis taeniatus. Other than Meinken's description all
> of the others were based solely on preserved specimens.
>
> In 1966 Thys split the genus Pelmatochromis into several subgenera (more on that
> below). One was Pelvicachromis. In 1968 Thys raised all of the subgenera to genus
> level. He also synonymized all of the above species with Pv. taeniatus based on
> overlapping meristic and morphologic features.
>
> In 1980 Loiselle & Castro recognized that, based on live specimens' color and
> behavior, the Kienke and Lobe forms of Pv. taeniatus could be separated from the
> type Pv. taeniatus from Nigeria. They claimed that Pv. kribensis was a valid
> species. They also recognized the Moliwe form to be very close to Pv. kribensis
> calliptera and was an intermediate form in the taX-Mozilla-Status: 0009mplex.
> Loiselle now recognizes certain characteristics, particularly in the female
> coloration that separate calliptera from kribensis and now considers it a good
> possibility that it too is a valid species.
>
> Meinken's klugei is the same as the Nigerian taeniatus.
>
> I don't know why Linke & Staeck didn't pick up on the Loiselle & Castro paper. The
> only reason I can think of is because it was published in the ACA's Buntbarsche
> Bulletin and they didn't consider it worthy of consideration. I do get the feeling
> they considered Loiselle & Castro's thesis to be possible because they didn't list
> the various color forms alphabetically. Instead they list them geographically,
> north to south, making it easier for the scientific names to be changed in later
> editions of their book without major a overhaul. Changing the names is easier than
> moving photos and pages.
>
> >
> >  in the same vein, do you know why they were changed from Pelmatochromis to
> >  Pelv. ?  is that still a vallid genus?
>
> Pelmatochromis, was like Aequidens in South America and
> Cichlasomma in Central America. It included many non related species. Thys,
> Loiselle, and Greenwood, all helped split Pelmatochromis into separate genera in
> the 1960s-80s. Presently the genus Pelmatochromis includes some generalized,
> medium-sized, cichlids not presently considered worth keeping in captivity.
>
> >  btw, the names after your email say "mike and diane".  is she a fish person?
> >  if not, she should be allowed to get her own email addres...
> >
> >  tsuh yang chen, nyc, USA
>
> I will take this as an innocent question. Last Friday Diane & I celebrated our
> 27th wedding anniversary; 27 years always sharing everything - good times & bad,
> fat times & lean, happy time & sad. We share everything (except underwear) and I
> have no plans of messing with a very very good & special thing that we have
> together. Diane likes fish, but isn't a fanatic. Her thing is making quilts & yes,
> she has her own business email address:
>
> Diane.Wise@ag.state.co.us
>
> You all might want to write her a short note & thank her for letting me have the
> time to answer all of your questions!
>
> Mike Wise
>
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RE: kribs/wild

by "Rob Mortensen" <rmortens/lbaop.org>
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com



It seems everyone writing in about the Kribs keeps them in a S. American
type tank(Corys, Ottos, Cardinals, etc.)
Does anyone have them in a West African setting?  You know, Mormyrids,
Distochodus, Synodonts, Killies, etc.  Am I chasing a dream?  Finally found
some N. parilus, haven't got N. transvestitus yet.  Still looking for most
of the above for that matter.  We had a decent shop in Illinois, he had
most of these, but I can't find much in California.  Anyone that knows of a
shop in S. Ca, I'm all ears.




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Ailing krib and Krib genetics

by "Alicia and Simon Voorwinde" <svavev/hunterlink.net.au>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000
To: <apisto/majordomo.pobox.com>

Hi, This is my first post to the mailing list so I hope it ends up where it
is meant to. I hope you don't mind me asking questions about krib instead of
apistos.

I have two queries; 1 a problem and the other a question on genetics.

I have a pair of albino krib who have spawned recently. They appeared to be
fine until Monday ( 27/3 ) and the female began to look ill. She began
hiding and gasping very heavily. All the other fish seem fine, even
outstanding. Tank inhabitants include sturisoma whiptail catfish,
bristlenose, and otocinclus. Water conditions 1dKH, 7dGH, ammonia 0, nitrite
0, ph 6.5, temp a little high ( very hot days lately ) at 29 degrees celcius
( but I would have thought that would help boost the immune system ). Any
ideas what may be ailing her ?

The other thing is a group of people around Australia who visit my dwarf
cichlid discussion forum are about to embark on a project called the Krib
project. In this project we are going to try and undertake a breeding
project to try and improve the vigour and colour of a bread and butter
species like the kribensis ( our subject ). We would select krib pairs and
breed them selecting the most colourful and hardy individuals to breed from,
culling the rest and swapping the best of the spawn with the other breeders
around the country ( frieght around Australia is cheap and quick ). At the
moment we are gathering information about inheritance patterns in kribensis.
The kind of things we are seeking is which features of krib are inheritable
traits and which are environmentally influenced traits. Traits like vigour
 I don't know whether anyone has noticed but male krib seem to die a lot
just after spawning and are less vigourous than they were say 10 years
ago ), number of ocelli on the tail and dorsal, and intensity of the red on
the bellies of both males and females, the extent of the red on the belly of
the female, the mothering instinct of female krib and the defensive nature
of male krib, are examples of traits we'd like to improve but this is
pointless if we don't know how these traits are inherited. Ultimately we'd
like to tackle one of these traits at a time ( no point trying to improve
all of them at once ) and then breed the improved strains and release them
to pet stores around the country. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

On a related matter - my albino krib pair have recently spawned as I said
above and have produced about 50 fry, half of which seem to be albino and
the other half seem to have the wild type phenotype. Since then I have found
out that albinism in albino krib is a codominant gene. If wild type fry are
produced does this mean they don't carry the albino gene at all
( homozygous ) or aren't my krib parents real albinos ( the male has black
eye spots on his tail and dorsal, not colourless white ones ) ?

Regards,

Simon Voorwinde

=========================================================
svavev@hunterlink.net.au
http://thecichlidtank.cjb.net
=========================================================




Ailing krib and Krib genetics

by Frauley/Elson <fraulels/minet.ca>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

The thing that i feel makes long term maintenance of dwarf cichlids
difficult is space. I'm maintaining two killifish, and although the
personal project is only 8 years along now, there are some observations
I can pass along.
Culling for size/colour can be a disaster. The inheritance of these
traits doesn't seem simple. The best approach, in my opinion, is to cull
the extremely rare deformed fish and fish that don't grow and use all
others. Nature culls randomly and only Pokemon evolve the way they're
expected to.
If you are aiming for your ideal form of pulcher then line breeding for
traits is what you want to do, but remember the blue ram, compared to
the perky, aggressive little wild fish. they've got size, they've got
colour, and they've got downright wormy characters compared to wild
fish. In aquaria, they are like different species.
I don't know if you can get wild stock into Australia. I've kept them
once (in Canada), and watched them a few times, and feel they are
already very different from the aquarium forms. They were harder to
breed, touchier about their water and more aggressive by quite a bit.
They acted more like sp. 'sacrimontis', the black/red wild krib, than
like aquarium forms.
If i were in such a project (not knowing how it works in your country so
maybe off base) I'd try to work a deal for wild fish, then set up to
breed them in different locations with some kind of program for crossing
back the lines that would develop with the different breeders having
started from the same stock. Captivity may select for different survival
traits pretty quickly, but at least that way, you could start with a
wild 'form' and try to keep it looking like itself.
If you look at the books, P. taeniatus is subdivided into a number of
distinct morphs that breeders respect, but P. pulcher, in my opinion as
diverse a fish but 'too familiar' doesn't get the same respect. People
who would never cross taeniatus 'Lobe' with 'Loukoudje' will happily mix
pulcher morphs. 
Then again, I love aquarium form pulcher...
Gary


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Ailing krib and Krib genetics

by WnyZman/aol.com
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Simon,
    About 5 years ago I received 6 Albino Kribs from Al Knowles in Tampa, FL 
and proceeded to breed them. I also had broods split of albino and wild 
types. Over the next 2 years I in-bred father to daughter and mother to son 
and after about only three generations finally got a few pair that bred all 
true Albino. Had them until last year when space necessitated I move them all 
out. It was fun working with them and when selleing at a local auction or 
store I was able to say they bred true. I don't know how long after that it 
continued.
    Z-Man


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Ailing krib and Krib genetics

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Simon,

My only experience (and not mine actually) with such selective breeding of Common
Kribs was over 20 years ago. Rick Haeffner (now curator of herps & fishes at the
Denver Zoo) selectively bred Common Kribs to increase the number of spots on the
male's caudal fin. He gave me one male that was a cull. It had 7 spots in two
rows! I have a slide of it somewhere. He had specimens with 12 spots in three
rows by the time he grew tired of the experiment.

As for albino Common Kribs, Dr. Langhammer discussed its genetics in a
Buntbarsche Bulletin back in the mid 80s. He explains why some produce normal
colored fry as well as albinos while others produce all albinos.

As for the female's breathing problems, I wonder if she might be infested with
gill parasites. All fish have them all of the time (sort of like the cold virus
in humans). If she was more stressed than the other fish in the tank, she might
have had a population explosion that are now clogging her gills. Try a commercial
parasite killer or use a formalin bath (2 drops / US gallon or 1 drop / 2 liters)
and see if this helps.

Mike Wise

Alicia and Simon Voorwinde wrote:

> Hi, This is my first post to the mailing list so I hope it ends up where it
> is meant to. I hope you don't mind me asking questions about krib instead of
> apistos.
>
> I have two queries; 1 a problem and the other a question on genetics.
>
> I have a pair of albino krib who have spawned recently. They appeared to be
> fine until Monday ( 27/3 ) and the female began to look ill. She began
> hiding and gasping very heavily. All the other fish seem fine, even
> outstanding. Tank inhabitants include sturisoma whiptail catfish,
> bristlenose, and otocinclus. Water conditions 1dKH, 7dGH, ammonia 0, nitrite
> 0, ph 6.5, temp a little high ( very hot days lately ) at 29 degrees celcius
> ( but I would have thought that would help boost the immune system ). Any
> ideas what may be ailing her ?
>
> The other thing is a group of people around Australia who visit my dwarf
> cichlid discussion forum are about to embark on a project called the Krib
> project. In this project we are going to try and undertake a breeding
> project to try and improve the vigour and colour of a bread and butter
> species like the kribensis ( our subject ). We would select krib pairs and
> breed them selecting the most colourful and hardy individuals to breed from,
> culling the rest and swapping the best of the spawn with the other breeders
> around the country ( frieght around Australia is cheap and quick ). At the
> moment we are gathering information about inheritance patterns in kribensis.
> The kind of things we are seeking is which features of krib are inheritable
> traits and which are environmentally influenced traits. Traits like vigour
>  I don't know whether anyone has noticed but male krib seem to die a lot
> just after spawning and are less vigourous than they were say 10 years
> ago ), number of ocelli on the tail and dorsal, and intensity of the red on
> the bellies of both males and females, the extent of the red on the belly of
> the female, the mothering instinct of female krib and the defensive nature
> of male krib, are examples of traits we'd like to improve but this is
> pointless if we don't know how these traits are inherited. Ultimately we'd
> like to tackle one of these traits at a time ( no point trying to improve
> all of them at once ) and then breed the improved strains and release them
> to pet stores around the country. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>
> On a related matter - my albino krib pair have recently spawned as I said
> above and have produced about 50 fry, half of which seem to be albino and
> the other half seem to have the wild type phenotype. Since then I have found
> out that albinism in albino krib is a codominant gene. If wild type fry are
> produced does this mean they don't carry the albino gene at all
> ( homozygous ) or aren't my krib parents real albinos ( the male has black
> eye spots on his tail and dorsal, not colourless white ones ) ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Simon Voorwinde
>
> =========================================================
> svavev@hunterlink.net.au
> http://thecichlidtank.cjb.net
> =========================================================
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com.
> For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
> email apisto-request@listbox.com.
> Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!






Observations on tankmates for breeding Kribs

by "Barry" <barry_mitchell/hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000
To: "Erik Olson" <erik/thekrib.com>

I own a pair of Kribensas that are excellent breeders. They breed every six weeks and work closely together to guard their hatch.

I have tried a variety of tankmates with them, in an effort to maintain the tank in its visual appeal and interest.

I had two siamese algae eaters in the tank with them. The kribs constantly guarded against them and occassionally gave chase, but the siamese are much too fast to be caught. I don't really trust large siamese with the fry. They are just too good at catching adult brine shrimp to think they would not be opportunistic with the occassional stray fry.

I have found that this pair will not tolerate corys of any type. They played tug-o'-war with one black C. aeneus, costing him an eye and pectoral fin. The aeneus has recovered nicely and is showing some interest in breeding now. Three C. paleatus in the tank were quickly killed.

Shortly after this event, I gave the Kribs a 55 gallon tank all to themselves. Algae, of the short hair-like variety bloomed and covered everything in the tank quickly. Also, with the absence of any competition the Kribs bicker with each other constantly. It would seem without any outside threat, they begin to view each other as a threat.

In an effort to eliminate the algae problem, I introduced two whiptail catfish (Rineloricaria lima) into the tank, figuring that such inactive fish would not upset the kribs. In the five minutes that followed, the whiptails lay very still on the bottom while the kribs again teamed up to attack them. I removed the whiptails to another tank before any damage could be done.

The kribs almost immediately began nipping at each other as soon as the whiptails were removed. This got so bad that I removed the male. Both fish immediately lost their red coloration, the male hid under a flowerpot all day, and the female stayed low in the tank and ventured out very little. I reintroduced the male after eight hours and they quickly started working together again.

I then introduced six Otocinclus affinis, four mollies, and twelve juvenile white clouds. I figured all the movement would keep the kribs distracted while the otos and mollies cleaned up the algae growth. The kribs largely ignore the mollies and the white clouds unless they get too close to the fry, and then the kribs only give a short chase, never catching up to either mollies or white clouds. I have observed the larger of the mollies (2+ inches) showing interest in a stray fry and I think only the smaller mollies are safe tankmates.

The otos did not fair as well. They have a habit of occassionally freeswimming across the tank. When they approach too close to the fry, they are an easy catch for either of the kribs. I shortly noticed the otos hanging motionless against the side of the tank, their tails having been nipped. In this condition they are stressed and do little to reduce the algae growth.

I have malaysian trumpet snails and ramshorn snails in the tank with the kribs. I have observed the kribs pulling larger trumpet snails out of the gravel and killing them. And I have observed that ramshorn larger than 1/4" diameter fair little better.

Most recently, I removed the Otocinclus and introduced a pair of bristlenose catfish (Ancistrus dolichopterus). So far, the bristlenose spend the day hanging onto the side of the tank or on driftwood, completely ignored by the kribs. I have seen the kribs take their brood right over the hiding spot of a bristlenose and not seem to notice his presence. At night, I have observed them, by way of an Indiglo nightlight I have in the tank hood. The kribs retreat with their brood to a large overturned flowerpot for the night. They only venture out when the bristlenose come close to this pot, but they do not attack.

My conclusion from these observations are that:

  1. Breeding kribs will not tolerate any bottom dweller in the tank, no matter how harmless.
  2. . The best fish for algae control in the breeding tank are those that hide all day off the bottom, and work at night.
  3. Lots of driftwood and pots should be provided as hiding places, both for kribs and catfish.
  4. 4. A school of harmless and fast dither fish works to keep the pair cooperating.

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This page was last updated 17 February 2002