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Aqualog Dwarf book corrections

Contents:

  1. AAAAhqualog
    by Mayalauren/aol.com (Thu, 8 Oct 1998)
  2. AAAAhqualog
    by Ken Laidlaw <K.Laidlaw/roe.ac.uk> (Fri, 9 Oct 1998)
  3. AAAAhqualog
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Fri, 09 Oct 1998)
  4. AAAAhqualog
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Fri, 09 Oct 1998)
  5. AAAAhqualog
    by Mayalauren/aol.com (Fri, 9 Oct 1998)
  6. AAAAhqualog
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Fri, 09 Oct 1998)
  7. AAAAhqualog
    by Mayalauren/aol.com (Fri, 9 Oct 1998)
  8. AAAAhqualog
    by Mayalauren/aol.com (Fri, 9 Oct 1998)
  9. AAAAhqualog
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Fri, 09 Oct 1998)
  10. AAAAhqualog
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Fri, 09 Oct 1998)
  11. AAAAhqualog
    by Mayalauren/aol.com (Sat, 10 Oct 1998)
  12. AAAAhqualog
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Sat, 10 Oct 1998)
  13. AAAhqualog
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Thu, 15 Oct 1998)
  14. AAAhqualog
    by Mayalauren/aol.com (Thu, 15 Oct 1998)
  15. AAAhqualog
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Fri, 16 Oct 1998)
  16. AAAhqualog
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Fri, 16 Oct 1998)
  17. AAAhqualog
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Fri, 16 Oct 1998)
  18. AAAhqualog
    by Mayalauren/aol.com (Thu, 15 Oct 1998)
  19. Aaaqualog cont.
    by Mayalauren/aol.com (Sat, 17 Oct 1998)
  20. AAAhqualog
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Sat, 17 Oct 1998)
  21. Aaaqualog cont.
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Sat, 17 Oct 1998)
  22. AAAhqualog
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Tue, 20 Oct 1998)
  23. Culled?
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Tue, 20 Oct 1998)
  24. Parallelstreifen
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Tue, 20 Oct 1998)
  25. Culled?
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Wed, 21 Oct 1998)
  26. Culled?
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Thu, 22 Oct 1998)
  27. A. sp "four stripes"
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Fri, 06 Nov 1998)
  28. A. sp Erdfesser
    by Marco Lacerda <marcolacerda/ax.apc.org> (Mon, 08 Mar 1999)
  29. A. sp Erdfesser (A. pulcher ID)
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Mon, 08 Mar 1999)
  30. A. sp Erdfesser (A. pulcher ID)
    by Marco Lacerda <marcolacerda/ax.apc.org> (Mon, 08 Mar 1999)
  31. A. sp Erdfesser (A. pulcher ID)
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Tue, 09 Mar 1999)

AAAAhqualog

by Mayalauren/aol.com
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Okay let's get started everybody!

Page 20 1st column 3rd down is the same fish (specimen) as page 21 2nd column
2nd down. Two different colour morphs ...Hmmmm!
Jason


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AAAAhqualog

by Ken Laidlaw <K.Laidlaw/roe.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

I don't have my aqualog with me but from memory a fish 
labelled as A.brevis looks like a small bitaeniata to me.  
Has that distinctive red band below the dorsal fin.

Ken.




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AAAAhqualog

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Jason,

They do look similar, don't they? Both photos (SO3364-4 & SO3372-4) were taken by
Hans Mayland. There is a good chance that it's the same fish in both photos. This
is one of the problems with the Aqualog book, quick & dirty editing/proof
reading. Further on in the book there even appears to be a photo of the same fish
under two different names! Nevertheless, A. bitaeniata does have several
different color forms. Most authors list yellow, red, & blue, but if you're in
the business of selling fish it doesn't hurt to offer even more variety.

Now let's start with a couple of other errors:

Also on page 21 is a mis-identified fish. Which photo is it. What species is it?

On page 28 is a nice picture (SO3432-3) of A. cf. caetei Rotwangen (Red-cheek),
but there's another obvious (well, maybe not so obvious) mis-ID. Which one is it?
What species is it?

Mayalauren@aol.com wrote:

> Okay let's get started everybody!
>
> Page 20 1st column 3rd down is the same fish (specimen) as page 21 2nd column
> 2nd down. Two different colour morphs ...Hmmmm!
> Jason
>
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AAAAhqualog

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com



Ken Laidlaw wrote:

> I don't have my aqualog with me but from memory a fish
> labelled as A.brevis looks like a small bitaeniata to me.
> Has that distinctive red band below the dorsal fin.

Ken,

Right you are! The fish listed as A. cf. brevis on page 25 is a young male A.
bitaeniata. The ruddy back is seen on most specimens of this species.

>
>
> Ken.
>
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AAAAhqualog

by Mayalauren/aol.com
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

In a message dated 10/9/98 1:52:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
apistowise@bewellnet.com writes:

<< Also on page 21 is a mis-identified fish. Which photo is it. What species
is it?
  >>
S03376-4  A. mendezi?? something about that dorsal...


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AAAAhqualog

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com



Mayalauren@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 10/9/98 1:52:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> apistowise@bewellnet.com writes:
>
> << Also on page 21 is a mis-identified fish. Which photo is it. What species
> is it?
>   >>
> S03376-4  A. mendezi?? something about that dorsal...

Right photo, wrong fish.

>
>
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AAAAhqualog

by Mayalauren/aol.com
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

In a message dated 10/9/98 3:39:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
apistowise@bewellnet.com writes:

<< Right photo, wrong fish. >>

What, no hints this time? Dammit my head hurts! A.Paucisquamis. Hey if we name
every fish we'll get there eventually :-)
Jason


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AAAAhqualog

by Mayalauren/aol.com
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

In a message dated 10/9/98 1:52:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
apistowise@bewellnet.com writes:

<< On page 28 is a nice picture (SO3432-3) of A. cf. caetei Rotwangen (Red-
cheek),
 but there's another obvious (well, maybe not so obvious) mis-ID. Which one is
it? >>

S-303435 Haven't a clue what fish though.

Incidently the bitaeniata I spoke about earlier is also in the M & B book.
He's a star I tell ya!
PS. Where is everybody?
Jason


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AAAAhqualog

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Jason,

The trick is to look at the fish and find the features that are diagnostic. Notice
the light colored band below the dark lateral band? Well, if the photo wasn't a
bit overexposed you would see a similar shiny band above the lateral band. The
shiny bands, along with the combination of a low dorsal fin, closed lyre tail, and
wide, dark, cheek stripe all point to what was once called the Glanzbinden
(Shiny-banded) Apisto, A. paucisquamis.

Mayalauren@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 10/9/98 3:39:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> apistowise@bewellnet.com writes:
>
> << Right photo, wrong fish. >>
>
> What, no hints this time? Dammit my head hurts! A.Paucisquamis. Hey if we name
> every fish we'll get there eventually :-)
> Jason
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com.
> For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
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AAAAhqualog

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

I assume you mean S03435-3, A. sp. Blue-head. This is a fish I've never seen or
heard of in any other publication. The male has the heavy lips and spotted, open
lyretail typical of cacatuoides-complex species. The black patches on the upper &
lower base of the tail are typical of A. luelingi, so is  the spot pattern on the
tail. The dorsal fin doesn't show the extended "Indian war bonnet" anterior
lappets, and the anal fin appears to have only 3 anal spines (A. luelingi usually
has 4). It's probably a species closely related to A. luelingi. The collecting
locality, Rio Apeo, is a river unknown even to Marco Lacerda so this is either a
misspelling or something worse. There is a Rio Apeu on the eastern coast of
Brazil, but there are no cacatuoides-complex fish within a thousand miles of this
location. If anyone has any information on this fish, please let me know.

This isn't the mis-ID'd fish, however. Any other guesses?

Mike Wise

Mayalauren@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 10/9/98 1:52:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> apistowise@bewellnet.com writes:
>
> << On page 28 is a nice picture (SO3432-3) of A. cf. caetei Rotwangen (Red-
> cheek),
>  but there's another obvious (well, maybe not so obvious) mis-ID. Which one is
> it? >>
>
> S-303435 Haven't a clue what fish though.
>
> Incidently the bitaeniata I spoke about earlier is also in the M & B book.
> He's a star I tell ya!
> PS. Where is everybody?
> Jason
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com.
> For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
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AAAAhqualog

by Mayalauren/aol.com
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

In a message dated 10/10/98 10:28:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
apistowise@bewellnet.com writes:

<< I assume you mean S03435-3, A. sp. Blue-head. This is a fish I've never
seen or
 heard of in any other publication. >>

Mike,
Bork & Mayland talk about it on pp53, as being an Asian hybrid of A caetei.
Presumably that's why Aqualog has it on the same page as A caetei. The plot
thickens!!
Jason


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AAAAhqualog

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

It sure does! The fish in Aqualog (S03435-3) is entirely different than the photo
of A. caetei "Blaukopf" (= Blue-head) (S03436-4) shown of page 54 of Mayland &
Bork's book. A. caetei (Blaukopf/Blue-head) is obviously a domestically
blue-enhanced A. caetei. The Aqualog fish (S03435-3) has a much larger mouth with
heavier lips. So now we have two fish with the same name! AAARRRGH!!

Mayalauren@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 10/10/98 10:28:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> apistowise@bewellnet.com writes:
>
> << I assume you mean S03435-3, A. sp. Blue-head. This is a fish I've never
> seen or
>  heard of in any other publication. >>
>
> Mike,
> Bork & Mayland talk about it on pp53, as being an Asian hybrid of A caetei.
> Presumably that's why Aqualog has it on the same page as A caetei. The plot
> thickens!!
> Jason
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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AAAhqualog

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Aqualog p.28 S03430-3 is definitely not A. caetei. It has a lateral spot
on the
lateral band, so it can't be a regani-group fish. Hint: it's in the
steindachneri-group!

As for the A. agassizii/cf. gephyra fish, it is probably the form found
near
Santarem in the Lago (Lake) Jurucui and Igarapé Grandé. Although it
doesn't
actually look like the typical A. gephyra, this is one of the type
locations where
3 of the type series were collected. I'm certainly not going to fault
Kullander's
identification! I can't honestly say this fish belongs to the same
species used
by Kullander, 'though. The color pattern on the scales is sufficiently
different
to wonder whether it actually is an altogether different species. For
now, I
personally call it A. cf. gephyra like Mayland & Bork. My question is
why does
this species have two different numbers?

Mike Wise

Mayalauren@aol.com wrote:

> Okay everyone...Back to work!!
> pp 28 S03430-3 2nd column 2nd down...???
> pp19 S03336-4 In B&M the same fish is listed as A.cf gephyra, on page 63
>
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AAAhqualog

by Mayalauren/aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

 I also disagree that pp28  1st column 3rd down is a male. Looks just like my
female A. caetei. The caudal spot seems to be much more of a bar in the
female.


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AAAhqualog

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com



Mayalauren@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 10/15/98 7:03:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> apistowise@bewellnet.com writes:
>
> > Aqualog p.28 S03430-3 is definitely not A. caetei. It has a lateral spot
> >  on the
> >  lateral band, so it can't be a regani-group fish. Hint: it's in the
> >  steindachneri-group!
>
> Ok Mike, I just can't find a fish that has a lateral spot so low down. You're
> going to have to answer this one!!

OK, it's A. rupununi. If you look closely, the lateral spot spreads upward toward
the dorsal fin to form the characteristic steindachneri-group flank patch. The
squared-off tail fin and cheek stripe of fairly even width (the patch on A.
hippolytae widens downward) all point to A. rupununi. The number and width of the
stripes in the tail are a bit atypical, however.

> Are there any other fish in Aqualog that are mis-id?

There certainly are. On p. 33, 3rd row down, A. cf. eunotus is correct, but was
originally called A. sp. Orangeschwanz (Orange-tail) by Linke & Staeck in the 1984
edition of their Dwarf Cichlids book. In the 1994 English edition they call it A.
eunotus. The tail fin on A. sp. Orangeschwanz isn't as rounded as on typical forms
of A. eunotus (whatever that is), nor do typical A. eunotus have such extended
dorsal and anal fins as those shown in Linke & Staeck. It does, however, show
hints of the split (at least in the Linke & Staeck photo) in Bar 6 (next to last
vertical bar) that is diagnostic of A. eunotus. I can't say it's a separate
species, but then again I can't say it isn't.

Anyone hazard a guess on the name of the fish on p. 36, bottom row left
(S033538-4)? I've never seen such a well developed "ring" around the tail on A.
gephyra.

What's the ID of the fish shown on p. 48, 3rd row left (S03665-3)?

What's the ID of the fish shown on p. 50, top row left (S03675-4 Male)?

> Incidently, I just got  a pair of A. aff. cruzi (Peru), similar to S03459-4 on
> pp30 Aqualog, except that it has an orange, rounded caudal. Any Ideas??
> Jason

This is what originally came in as the Parallelstreifen (Parallel-striped) Apisto.
It's just one of the many forms of the morphologically very variable species now
called A. cruzi. Who knows? Maybe when more information is found on A. cruzi it
will be recognized as being several different but closely related species.Now I
have a question. Is anyone, other than Jason, interested in continuing this
exercise? So far, it's been virtually a 2-way conversation between us. If no one
else is interested, Jason & I can continue privately and not waste space on the
mailing list.

Mike Wise

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AAAhqualog

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com



Mayalauren@aol.com wrote:

>  I also disagree that pp28  1st column 3rd down is a male. Looks just like my
> female A. caetei. The caudal spot seems to be much more of a bar in the
> female.

Judging from the minor amount of pigmentation in the ventral fins (very dark on
females), I'd say it is a young male. When males assume parenting duties they
usually take on the female's brood dress, but not to the same degree.

Mike Wise

>
>
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AAAhqualog

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998
To: Mayalauren/aol.com



Mayalauren@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 10/16/98 1:37:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> apistowise@bewellnet.com writes:
>
> > Anyone hazard a guess on the name of the fish on p. 36, bottom row left
> >  (S033538-4)? I've never seen such a well developed "ring" around the tail
> >on A. gephyra.
> >
> I don't know! But it reminds me of a fish that I just got. A.sp.
> gephyra/pulchra.

Hmm. Sounds like the supplier is hedging his bets. I personally don't think it's
A. gephyra and it definitely isn't A. pulchra (It doesn't have any trim on the
tail, just a lot of spots.). To me it looks like some weird oval tailed A.
agassizii, possibly an undescribed species.

> Which also reminds me in turn that You and Marco Lacerda  are
> writing something about this fish for the Buntbarsche Bulletin,

No, the fish Marco & I wrote about is an entirely different species that we call
the Red-fin Rio Xingu. It has a wide, but still spade shaped tail with a lace like
pattern similar to A. pulchra's. Depending on the color form, the tail, dorsal, &
anal fins can be rimmed in bright red-orange of pale ice blue.

> and being fairly new to the hobby I have NO idea how to get copies of this!
> Could you
> let me know?

The best and easiest way is to join the American Cichlid Association. Once it's
published you can buy the journal. It will be sold as an item from back sales.

> >  What's the ID of the fish shown on p. 48, 3rd row left (S03665-3)?
>  A. hongsloi

Correct! You noticed the red color on the root of the tail and the base of the
anal fin?

> >  What's the ID of the fish shown on p. 50, top row left (S03675-4 Male)?
>  A. viejita

Nope. The spotted pattern says A. guttata, but the black edging on the tail is
like that on A. hoignei. It says its a domestic bred fish. For all I know it might
be a cross between A. guttata & A. hoignei, two very closely related species.


> I agree with you that nobody else seems interested. (I don't understand it!!)
> I've learned more in the past few days than I have in months.
>
> Thanks for answering my posts!! Tell me to shut up any time you've had
> enough!!

Anyone asking sincere questions, I answer. And there are no dumb questions if
sincerely asked. (must be the teacher in me).

> pp47 & 48,  I'm confused about all the macmasteri photos. L&S give  it a
> rounded caudal, B&M give it a truncated caudal. and Aqualog gives both (even
> lyre), except for pp 48, left hand column, bottom 2, S03665-3 (A. hongsloi)
> and S03677-3, which both have rounded.

A. macmasteri is one of those species that can develop any of these. Young males
all start out with round tails and as they grow it becomes more squared off. Only
big tank raised males develop extensions on the tail (open or broad lyretail).

Mike Wise
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AAAhqualog

by Mayalauren/aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Okay everyone...Back to work!!
pp 28 S03430-3 2nd column 2nd down...???
pp19 S03336-4 In B&M the same fish is listed as A.cf gephyra, on page 63


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Aaaqualog cont.

by Mayalauren/aol.com
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

It seems that people want to keep going...GOOD!!!
I'm finding it really hard to differentiate between A. mendezi & A.
paucisquamis. 
eg. pp51 left column 4th down S03695-3 and pp54 right column 4th down
S03770-3.
The only differences I see are a difference in dorsal height and that the A
paucisquamis has rows of spots on its caudal.But the other mendezi have spots
too.
I find the two very confusing...
Jason


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AAAhqualog

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Ken,

A. sp. Blue-head has the tail pattern of A. luelingi, that's for certain. It's such a
poorly posed photo that it's hard to tell, but it looks like the anal fin has only 3
spines (A. luelingi usually has 4). It doesn't show extended anterior dorsal lappets
either, but this might be a young fish. The female has a caudal spot, something A.
luelingi females normally don't show. It probably is A. luelingi, but I can't be sure
from these photos. On the other hand, I wonder if the editors put the wrong photo on the
page for A. caetei (Blue-head).

Mike Wise

p.s. Do you think you could take your book to you work station? It sure would be great
to have more than one opinion on some of these fish. The last thing I want is to have
someone not answer for fear of making an error in ID. We all blow it sometime
(especially me).

Ken Laidlaw wrote:

> > Is anyone, other than Jason, interested in continuing this
> > exercise? So far, it's been virtually a 2-way conversation between us. If no one
> > else is interested, Jason & I can continue privately and not waste space on the
> > mailing list.
>
> Yes please Mike.  I and maybe others can't contribute as my
> Aqualog and PC and not at the same locale.  I intend though
> to gather the info and update the book.  It will be really
> good in the end to have a correct Aqualog.
>
> Cheers,
> Ken.
>
> ps from memory the fish pictured as (I think) A. sp "blue
> cheek", is it A.luelingi?
>
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Aaaqualog cont.

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com



Mayalauren@aol.com wrote:

> It seems that people want to keep going...GOOD!!!
> I'm finding it really hard to differentiate between A. mendezi & A.
> paucisquamis.
> eg. pp51 left column 4th down S03695-3 and pp54 right column 4th down
> S03770-3.
> The only differences I see are a difference in dorsal height and that the A
> paucisquamis has rows of spots on its caudal.But the other mendezi have spots
> too.

Römer list the major differences between the two as being that A. mendezi has a
shorter lower jaw (compare pictures), 3-4 narrower abdominal stripes (A.
paucisquamis has only one broad stripe), has a complete set of caudal peduncle
scales typical of apistos (A. paucisquamis = few scales, has fewer scales in this
area) and A. mendezi never has even, vertical rows of spots on the tail. A.
mendezi grow larger, too. Live specimens of A. paucisquamis have shiny bands
bordering above & below the lateral band.

Mike Wise

> I find the two very confusing...
> Jason
>
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AAAhqualog

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com



Ken Laidlaw wrote:

> > Anyone hazard a guess on the name of the fish on p. 36, bottom row left
> > (S033538-4)? I've never seen such a well developed "ring" around the tail on A.
> > gephyra.
>
> A.pulchra?

Nope. A. pulchra has a tail that's more round than lanceolate, like this fish but the
caudal fin is covered with many rows of spots. This gives it a lace like appearance.

> > What's the ID of the fish shown on p. 48, 3rd row left (S03665-3)?
>
> A,hongsloi.  The red band along the bottom is the give away.

Excellent!

> > What's the ID of the fish shown on p. 50, top row left (S03675-4 Male)?
> Don't know but it is a beauty

Me neither. It looks more like a cross between A. guttata & A. hoignei.

Mike Wise

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Culled?

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com



Ken Laidlaw wrote:

> > Now for the next Aqualog questions.
> > What species is shown on the bottom right, page 51 (S03715-3)?
> A.eunotus?

Close, it's in the eunotus-complex. This fish doesn't show the split on the bottom of
Bar 6 that is diagnostic of A. eunotus. Hint: It's a highly variable species in both
color and body shape.

> > What species is shown on the second row, page 59 (S03835-3) AND third row, page
> > 62 (S03870-4)? Do they look the same to you?
> Yes same fish, don't know what though.

It looks like it belongs in the resticulosa-complex of the regani-group. It has the
body shape and finnage of A. sp. Wangenflecken (Cheek-spotted), but the color is
strange and the photos are too out-of-focus to accurately examine the shape of the
caudal peduncle spot. For now I would leave it as A. sp. Alenquer, not Wangenflecken.
This fish hasn't been discussed anywhere in the hobby literature that I am aware of.

Now for some other odds & ends:

Page 58, row 2, left (S03815-3): This isn't A. resticulosa (Compare it with what is
probably A. resticulosa to it's immediate right, also numbered S03815-3). The fish on
the left has a deeper body and a taller, more narrow, caudal peduncle spot. It looks
very much like A. sp. Wangenflecken, only with a few more rows of spots on the tail.
What would I call it? A. cf. sp.  Wangenflecken? That's ridiculous! You can't have an
undescribed fish "conform" to another undescribed fish (or can you??). So for now I
call it Wangenflecken.

Page 58, row 4 (S03817-3): This fish looks very much like A. resticulosa, except that
it has only a couple of spot rows to the back of the tail fin. A. resticulosa has
them extending 2/3 of the way toward the root of the tail. For now I just call it A.
(cf.) resticulosa Velho.

As you can see, the resticulosa-complex is a very poorly understood group of fish

Page 59, row 3, (S03838-4): This fish was originally discovered and introduced to the
hobby as A. sp. Sao Gabriel. It's very reminiscent of A. hongsloi, except the caudal
peduncle patch is violet in color. This is the only member of the macmasteri-group
that we presently know about that doesn't come from the Orinoco Basin of Venezuela &
Colombia. It shows that apistos are still dispersing in this area, macmasteri-group
species moving south while pertensis-group species are moving north.

Page 59, row 4, left: This fish was originally introduced to the hobby as an aberrant
form of A. sp. Amapá by Koslowski. It comes from the Rio Cunaní in the Brazilian
state of Amapá, across the Amazon from Belém. Choose a name, neither are entirely
accurate.

Page 61, row 2, (S03850-4): This is a form of A. sp. Breitbinden (Broad-banded) that
Linke & Staeck introduced A. sp. Caño Morrocoy in the most recent (1997) edition of
their book. You won't find it in your English (1994) edition. This is a northern race
that comes from around Puerto Ayacucho, Venezuela. When compared with the traditional
Rio Negro form, it has rows of slightly wider spots separated by narrower
interstitial areas.

Page 61, row 3, (S03855-3): This is the fish originally called A. sp. Rio Xingu.
There are two forms in which one has many more rows of spots in the tail (A. sp. Rio
Xingu "Stawikowski") than the other (A. sp. Rio Xingu "Chao"). This fish was
collected by Chao on the middle Rio Xingu and preserved specimens were cataloged as
"Chao 93-107" (hence the name here) for future taxonomic description. In a recent
article Warzel says that young males don't have the spot rows, but get them as they
mature.

Page 61, row 4, left (S03860-4): It doesn't look like A. sp. Vierstreifen
(Four-stripes) to me. Maybe it's the angle of the fish, but it looks too slender, and
the dorsal fin is more sail-like than that of Vierstreifen. I don't know, but to me
it looks like, possibly, A. pertensis. The female to its right looks like
Vierstreifen.

Page 62, row 4, (S03890-4): I don't know what this fish is, but I don't like the name
"A. sp. Peru". First of all this name was used previously by Koslowski as a common
name for A. urteagai before it was scientifically described. The fish shown here is
more closely related to A. cruzi. Using A. sp. Peru for this fish will only confuse
the matter. For now I'm simply calling it A. sp. aff. cruzi for want of a better
name.

Mike Wise

>
>
> Ken.
>
> *****************************
> Ken Laidlaw
> UK Astronomy Technology Centre
> Royal Observatory, Edinburgh
> Web: http://www.roe.ac.uk
> *****************************
>
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Parallelstreifen

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Jason,

This is probably just fin damage. I don't know of any apisto with true double
ventral fin extensions.

Mike Wise

Mayalauren@aol.com wrote:

> > Incidently, I just got  a pair of A. aff. cruzi (Peru), similar to S03459-4
> on
> > pp30 Aqualog, except that it has an orange, rounded caudal. Any Ideas??
> > Jason
>
> >>This is what originally came in as the Parallelstreifen (Parallel-striped)
> Apisto.
> >>It's just one of the many forms of the morphologically very variable species
> now
> >>called A. cruzi. Who knows? Maybe when more information is found on A. cruzi
> it
> >>will be recognized as being several different but closely related species
>
> Mike,
> I just noticed that the male seems to have  a split ventral fin extension- not
> long but very noticable. I can't find this on any other fish...
> Jason
>
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Culled?

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com



Mayalauren@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 10/20/98 1:25:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> apistowise@bewellnet.com writes:
>
> > > > What species is shown on the bottom right, page 51 (S03715-3)?
> I have to say A.cruzi.
> Jason

That's what I'd call it. The lateral band is too wide for A. moae, besides A.
moae doesn't have abdominal stripes. The only eunotus-complex fish that show
abdominal stripes right now are some A. eunotus (very pale), A. cruzi, and A. sp.
Orangestreifen (Orange-striped). The Aqualog fish isn't A. eunotus; it doesn't
show a split in the bottom of Bar 6.

It doesn't really look like A. sp. Orangestreifen either. This undescribed
species has orangish-red wavy abdominal stripes or orange spots between dark wavy
stripes. The stripes on the Aqualog fish are more even. The Orangestreifen Apisto
also has dorsal spots that bleed into the dorsal fin like those seen on
macmasteri-group females.

Next fish:
Page 63, third row (S03905-3): This should be a relatively easy one.

and finally,

Page 71, bottom row (S04270-3): Any guesses? Hint, look at the caudal spot.

Mike Wise

>
>
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Culled?

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Subject:
          Re: Culled?
     Date:
          Thu, 22 Oct 1998 06:52:40 +0100
    From:
          "Helen Burns" <hlnburns@thefree.net>
 Reply-To:
          apisto@majordomo.pobox.com
       To:
          <apisto@majordomo.pobox.com>




-----Original Message-----
From: Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise@bewellnet.com>
To: apisto@majordomo.pobox.com <apisto@majordomo.pobox.com>
Date: 22 October 1998 00:29
Subject: Re: Culled?

>Next fish:
>Page 63, third row (S03905-3): This should be a relatively easy one.

A. Borellii (opal)

Correct!

>and finally,
>Page 71, bottom row (S04270-3): Any guesses? Hint, look at the caudal spot.

Don't know.
Helen

Fredrik.Ljungberg@saab.se wrote:

> > Page 71, bottom row (S04270-3): Any guesses? Hint, look at the caudal spot.
> >
>
> A. commbrae (or inconspicua, I never could distinguish between the two).
>
> Fredrik L.

Correct, it's one of them. The caudal peduncle patch (the cauldal spot combined
with a dark part of  Bar 7) is a diagnostic feature of species belonging to the
commbrae-complex. This fish looks like A. inconspicua to me. A. inconspicua can
be differentiated from A. commbrae by two features:

A. commbrae: Abdominal stripes are more prominent & the lateral band extends into
the caudal patch (Bar 7).

A. inconspicua: Abdominal stripes are pale or non-existent & the lateral band
doesn't reach the caudal patch, but only to Bar 6.

There are in my opinion other fish in Aqua log I'm not sure of, but this is just
a judgment call on my part. They aren't worth mentioning. Are there any other
questions you want answered about the Aqua log book?

Mike Wise

>
>
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A. sp "four stripes"

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com



Mayalauren@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 11/6/98 1:59:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> apistowise@bewellnet.com writes:
>
> > Sounds like A. sp. Vierstreifen (Four-stripes) to me. As Helen mentioned
> >  Aqualog's SA Cichlids II has photos of an older female on p.61 and a nice
> > male on
> >  p.62.
>
>  Mike,
> is that male one 61 correctly id, or do you just prefer the male on 62...just
> wondering.

It's hard to tell. The fish is angled oddly so it's hard to see if it really has
abdominal stripes.

> While I'm here...pp36 top right hand corner S03525-4. I always understood that
> A.gephyra had only a slightly lancelote tail...

This is a very old male. Notice the massive, but poorly toned body and slight
nuchal hump? At this age A. gephyra tend to get longer extensions on the unpaired
fins. It looks like it has a lace pattern in the upper lobe of the caudal but it's
hard to see. It's probably the same form as the one on the bottom right of the
same page (S03530-4).

Mike Wise

> Jason
>
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A. sp Erdfesser

by Marco Lacerda <marcolacerda/ax.apc.org>
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999
To: apisto/admin.listbox.com

Ken Laidlaw wrote:
> 
> > Regretably no photo of the true A. pulchra can be found in Aqualog, Bork
> > & Mayland or Linke & Staeck books.
> 
> What are the fish that appear as A.pulchra in Aqualog
> please?
> Ken.
> 
> ps checked out the URL given by Mike, very nice fish.

For my opinion, the fish in Aqualog SAC-II page 56 (S03805-4) is a male 
A. gephyra, maybe the preceding photo is same species. But I would like 
to read Mike Wise's opinion.
In a certain way they resemble the "Red-tail Xingu"-Apisto (Buntbarsche 
Bulletin, 148, October 1998), but the lateral band seems to be broader 
[Aqualog fish] and the caudal fin lower half unspotted [Aqualog fish].

Cheers.




A. sp Erdfesser (A. pulcher ID)

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999
To: apisto/admin.listbox.com

In my opinion the fish in Aqualog SAC-II, page 56 (S03805-4), is a male A.
pulchra. I know that it only has a spotted pattern in the upper caudal lobe and
the lateral band pigmentation extends far back into the tail, and that this is
more typical of A. gephyra. What makes me think it's A. pulchra is the shorter
length of the dorsal fin base on the back of the fish. In the original
description of A. gephyra Kullander states:

"From A. pulchra it is well separated by the longer dorsal fin base (56.3-61.8%
of SL, mean = 59.3%; in A. pulchra 55.1-57.8%, mean = 56.2%)."

Besides, the caudal pattern appears to be variable on A. pulchra. In the original
description of A. pulchra Kullander states that there are:

"Three types of caudal fin pattern: a) up to 5 ill-defined vertical spot-stripes
on dorsal half near middle in upper lobe, b) immaculate, c) about 6 bars along
middle, continuing band continuation and broader than it."

His English phraseology wasn't too good in c), but the way I read it he means
that the upper lobe has 6 spot stripes in the middle and the lateral band appears
to continue into the tail, where it is broader than the lateral band on the
flanks. This form appears to be similar to the fish we're talking about.

And anyone who is intelligent enought to think that I have all this stuff
memorized and on the tips of my keyboard fingers, well I've also got some nice
ocean front property just a mile east of Miami Beach I'll sell cheap! Knowing how
to research is a valuable tool.

Mike Wise



Marco Lacerda wrote:

> Ken Laidlaw wrote:
> >
> > > Regretably no photo of the true A. pulchra can be found in Aqualog, Bork
> > > & Mayland or Linke & Staeck books.
> >
> > What are the fish that appear as A.pulchra in Aqualog
> > please?
> > Ken.
> >
> > ps checked out the URL given by Mike, very nice fish.
>
> For my opinion, the fish in Aqualog SAC-II page 56 (S03805-4) is a male
> A. gephyra, maybe the preceding photo is same species. But I would like
> to read Mike Wise's opinion.
> In a certain way they resemble the "Red-tail Xingu"-Apisto (Buntbarsche
> Bulletin, 148, October 1998), but the lateral band seems to be broader
> [Aqualog fish] and the caudal fin lower half unspotted [Aqualog fish].
>
> Cheers.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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A. sp Erdfesser (A. pulcher ID)

by Marco Lacerda <marcolacerda/ax.apc.org>
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999
To: apisto/admin.listbox.com

Mike & Diane Wise wrote:
> 
> In my opinion the fish in Aqualog SAC-II, page 56 (S03805-4), is a male A.
> pulchra. I know that it only has a spotted pattern in the upper caudal lobe and
> the lateral band pigmentation extends far back into the tail, and that this is
> more typical of A. gephyra. What makes me think it's A. pulchra is the shorter
> length of the dorsal fin base on the back of the fish. In the original
> description of A. gephyra Kullander states:
> 
> "From A. pulchra it is well separated by the longer dorsal fin base (56.3-61.8%
> of SL, mean = 59.3%; in A. pulchra 55.1-57.8%, mean = 56.2%)."
> 
> Besides, the caudal pattern appears to be variable on A. pulchra. In the original
> description of A. pulchra Kullander states that there are:
> 
> "Three types of caudal fin pattern: a) up to 5 ill-defined vertical spot-stripes
> on dorsal half near middle in upper lobe, b) immaculate, c) about 6 bars along
> middle, continuing band continuation and broader than it."
> 
> His English phraseology wasn't too good in c), but the way I read it he means
> that the upper lobe has 6 spot stripes in the middle and the lateral band appears
> to continue into the tail, where it is broader than the lateral band on the
> flanks. This form appears to be similar to the fish we're talking about.
> 
> And anyone who is intelligent enought to think that I have all this stuff
> memorized and on the tips of my keyboard fingers, well I've also got some nice
> ocean front property just a mile east of Miami Beach I'll sell cheap! Knowing how
> to research is a valuable tool.
> 
> Mike Wise

Mike, I respect your opinion, but I note following points which make me 
believe the Aqualog fish is NOT pulchra:

1) Regarding the caudal-fin pattern on Kullander, like you described 
above - Yes, that's true that sometimes the caudal-fin is unspotted, or 
the lower half unspotted; when this happen, the unspotted region is 
ALWAYS red in color, like it happens in the A. sp. Red-tail Xingu. I 
have noticed that and confirmed after seeing more than 100 wild males 
from the type locality, since 1994.

2) In A. pulchra, ALL WILD MALES (and also all F1 and F2 offspring) have 
ALWAYS a conspicuous yellow stripe over the lateral black band (like you 
described for A. maciliensis males). In the japanese book (page 36) you 
see it easily, and also in all other photos of A. pulchra, pls check it.
There is no sign of such stripe in the Aqualog fish.

3) The caudal fin of A. pulchra is never slightly pointed, but truncate; 
the Aqualog fish has it slightly pointed.

4) The caudal spot in the Aqualog fish is extended into the caudal fin, 
in A. pulchra, not. Pls check it also.

5) You are likely right and the Aqualog fish is not A. gephyra either. 
It is not very clear what A. gephyra indeed is. Even Kullander (pers. 
comm.) told me that after seeing samples collected by Chao in middle Rio 
Negro, he could not them tell apart from A. agassizii or A. gephyraŠ
I think this matter has been already discussed in this list, the fishes 
form the middle and middle-upper Rio Negro share characters of both A. 
gephyra and A. pulchraŠ




A. sp Erdfesser (A. pulcher ID)

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999
To: apisto/admin.listbox.com

Marco,

You most likely are right. You have seen more fish than any of us. It does, however,
match  the type series of A. pulchra pretty close as described by Kullander (young,
colorless, and dead). He didn't have live colors to describe. Right now the only way to
know for certain is to know where it or its ancestors were collected.

Mike Wise

Marco Lacerda wrote:

> Mike & Diane Wise wrote:
> >
> > In my opinion the fish in Aqualog SAC-II, page 56 (S03805-4), is a male A.
> > pulchra. What makes me think it's A. pulchra is the shorter
> > length of the dorsal fin base on the back of the fish.

> > "Three types of caudal fin pattern: a) up to 5 ill-defined vertical spot-stripes
> > on dorsal half near middle in upper lobe, b) immaculate, c) about 6 bars along
> > middle, continuing band continuation and broader than it."
> >
> > Mike Wise
>
> Mike, I respect your opinion, but I note following points which make me
> believe the Aqualog fish is NOT pulchra:
>
> 1) Regarding the caudal-fin pattern on Kullander, like you described
> above - Yes, that's true that sometimes the caudal-fin is unspotted, or
> the lower half unspotted; when this happen, the unspotted region is
> ALWAYS red in color, like it happens in the A. sp. Red-tail Xingu. I
> have noticed that and confirmed after seeing more than 100 wild males
> from the type locality, since 1994.
>
> 2) In A. pulchra, ALL WILD MALES (and also all F1 and F2 offspring) have
> ALWAYS a conspicuous yellow stripe over the lateral black band (like you
> described for A. maciliensis males). In the japanese book (page 36) you
> see it easily, and also in all other photos of A. pulchra, pls check it.
> There is no sign of such stripe in the Aqualog fish.
>
> 3) The caudal fin of A. pulchra is never slightly pointed, but truncate;
> the Aqualog fish has it slightly pointed.
>
> 4) The caudal spot in the Aqualog fish is extended into the caudal fin,
> in A. pulchra, not. Pls check it also.
>
> 5) You are likely right and the Aqualog fish is not A. gephyra either.
> It is not very clear what A. gephyra indeed is. Even Kullander (pers.
> comm.) told me that after seeing samples collected by Chao in middle Rio
> Negro, he could not them tell apart from A. agassizii or A. gephyraŠ
> I think this matter has been already discussed in this list, the fishes
> form the middle and middle-upper Rio Negro share characters of both A.
> gephyra and A. pulchraŠ
>
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