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Spawning Size of Adults

Contents:

  1. RE: Apistogramma Breeding Size
    by "Mroz, Tom" <tmroz/art-inc.com> (Wed, 19 Nov 1997)
  2. Apistogramma Breeding Size
    by Ken Laidlaw <K.Laidlaw/roe.ac.uk> (Wed, 19 Nov 1997)
  3. apisto life spans
    by twilk/dcs-chico.com (Thu, 22 Jan 1998)
  4. apisto life spans
    by Fredrik.Ljungberg/saab.se (Fri, 23 Jan 1998)
  5. apisto life spans
    by "Darren J. Hanson" <djhanson/calweb.com> (Fri, 23 Jan 1998)
  6. Life-spans and spawnings
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Sat, 09 Jan 1999)
  7. Life-spans and spawnings
    by Frauley/Elson <fraulels/minet.ca> (Sun, 10 Jan 1999)
  8. Re:Slow growers (was: Aggie "Alenquer")
    by BigJohnW/webtv.net (John Wubbolt) (Sat, 30 Jan 1999)
  9. incubation period
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Mon, 06 Nov 2000)
  10. FWD: RE: Sick/Dead Cacatuoides
    by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com> (Tue, 27 Feb 2001)

RE: Apistogramma Breeding Size

by "Mroz, Tom" <tmroz/art-inc.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

	>Am I cherishing these what may turn out to be OLD GRANDPA's???

We were talking about this at our club meeting last night.  We had a
presentation by some good-old fishkeepers that are well known in the
hobby for keeping a wide variety of fish for many, many years, and in
excellent condition all the time.  But, they lamented that their
spawning success was nowhere near the success that some of the people in
my club have had.  They specifically cited the work of one of our
members, who I was sitting next to (an avid Apisto/dwarf cichlid guy to
boot).  He and I commented back and forth throughout the entire
presentation that the fish they were showing and lamenting about were
TOO BIG to be considered reliable spawners! 

Our experience has been that older fish often (probably not as a rule,
but often) simply do not spawn as readily as younger fish.  I have seen
this in many cichlids.  For instance, lake Victoria fish will spawn at
<1" (I've seen it many times), though they grow to over 6".  They do not
carry many eggs at this point, but they spawn.  They seem to be most
active when they are in the 21/2" - 3" range.  After that, they keep
growning, but just try to get them to spawn!  I have bought adult pairs
a number of times, and have rarely ever gotten spawns out of them.
Similarly, I have had better and more frequent spawns of Chromidotalapia
guntheri at 1 1/2" than the parents I have that are nearly 6".
Anomalochromis thomasi pairs I have had spawn up a storm at 1 1/2"M, 1
1/4" F, but when the males exceed 2 1/2", forget it.

I see this often in Apistos as well.  I rarely get my adults up to the
sizes some of you talk about, and when I do, they simply do not spawn.
But when they are smaller (ie., colored, but not max. size), I get
spawns weekly.  I have seen spawns from cacatuoides with males at 1 1/4"
and females at 3/4".  But by the time the male exceeds 2", spawning
activity drops off.  A wild pair of pandurinis I had were spawning
weekly with 1 1/2"M, 1 1/4"F, but when the male exceeded 2 - 21/2", they
dropped off to about once every 3-4 weeks.  Further, the egg viability
just was not there anymore.  The first time I had breitbinden, they were
spawning weekly even though they were not big enough to accurately
identify.  By the time I was able to see enough of the details on the
male, their spawning activity had dropped off sharply.

The big, mature guys sure are pretty, but their value is probably more
for show than for spawning.  If you want to spawn, you are better off
with the young pups.

Tom

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Apistogramma Breeding Size

by Ken Laidlaw <K.Laidlaw/roe.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com


> Males are around two inch long and female are one inch 
> long. Female
> nijsseni  does have her breeding color. 

Definitely big enough.

> Borelli male and female are one
> inch long.

I once had a pair of borelli and the female was tiny, 
(about 0.75"TL) they spawned and successfully raised a few 
fry. The male was about 1.25".  Your male may be too small 
and it may benefit the fish in the longer term if they 
don't spawn too small.

Ken.



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apisto life spans

by twilk/dcs-chico.com
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Lisa
My T. candidi exhibit the same changes when they get old.  Two years for
this fish is very good.  The longest I have had a dwarf cichlid live is
about four years for A. nijsseni
that I caught myself.
Tom


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apisto life spans

by Fredrik.Ljungberg/saab.se
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

On Jan 22,  9:48am, EXT AVS; Lisa Wrischnik wrote:
> Hi all,
> I would like to know what people consider to be the sure signs of old
> age in their fish.  I just lost one of my original Taeniacara candidi males
> (at about 2 yrs of age), who over the course of a couple of months began to
> lose his color,to eat less, andn then to develop a spine bend. The other
> fish in this
> tank are all fine.  Anyway, I was wondering if fish that die of "old age"
> really just become too stressed to fend off common diseases and so die, or
> if they
> succumb to diseases of old age (a cancer, for example).  Any ideas - or do
> I really just have some awful disease lurking around in this tank?
>
> As a corollary, what kinds of life spans have you all seen for your dwarfs?
> (I couldn't access the archives today to see if this has been extensively
> covered already, so apologies if it has). I think I manage to kill off most
> of mine before they get the chance to go gently into that good night.
>
> Lisa

If it's any comfort my T.candidi male went the same way (losing colour,
spine bending) so I don't think it's a disease. I have 10 youngsters now
8 months old (and they have spawned for the first time), I'll know their
age when they die.

In nature many dwarfs seem to be seasonal (1 yr life span) so there it's
very likely that they die from stress or external pressure. In a well
maintained tank you can keep them for 2-5 yrs depending on species... who
knows what happens when a species lives 5 times longer than in nature?

//Fredrik

-- 
Fredrik.Ljungberg-at-saab.se
Saab Ab 
Flutter and Loads Department
voice +46 13 18 54 60, fax +46 13 18 33 63


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apisto life spans

by "Darren J. Hanson" <djhanson/calweb.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

I have a pair of A. bitaeniata that were my babies 2 years ago. They are
going on 3 years old now and are still spawning.

Kaycy


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Life-spans and spawnings

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com



ALEX PASTOR wrote:

> A couple of months back, Mary Bailey (just love her) wrote in "Practical
> Fishkeeping" that apistos spawn once or twice.  She did not specify if this
> was only in the wild or in an aquarium.

I'm sure she meant in the wild. Most apistos are believed to be annual fish in
the wild. Very few fully adult species are collected in the wild. It is thought
that they spawn a few times and then most are lost to predation. I, too, have a
great respect for what Mary has done for the BCA and the hobby in general.

> Since October she has not spawned.  Has she reached "fish menopause"?  She
> is eating normally still, but she does not look as sleek as before.

She's probably in a resting stage. Angelfish pairs commonly go through this. As
she ages she will continue to breed but probably will have smaller broods. If
healthy, she will breed until she dies.

> What I would like to know is: What is the expected lifespan of these fish if
> they are properly kept and eat a good diet?

Römer did a statistical study on apisto longevity in 23 different species many
years ago. He used 7,532 fish in this study and placed rigorous standards on
which fish were used. All were aquarium bred with known hatching dates. All had
to be at least 9 months old before they could be considered acceptable for the
study. His findings: only 8% survived beyond 24 months of age. Over 75% had died
by 18 months and 33% didn't survive their first year. the longest lived specimens
survived over 76 months.

>From these statistics Römer placed old age in apistos at 24 months.  Old age,
however, doesn't mean that they were infertile. 4 to 5 year old fish in his study
could still successfully breed. Most of the fish over 2 years old were males so
it seems that raising fry takes a lot out of females.

Anyone interested in his study can find it in:

Römer, Uwe.  1991.  Zur Lebenserwartung von Zwergbuntbarschen der Gattung
Apistogramma.  D.C.G.-Info. 22(2): 42-45.

ASG members can get the article and an English translation from me.

Mike Wise

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Life-spans and spawnings

by Frauley/Elson <fraulels/minet.ca>
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

Alex,
I've been watching an astonishing apisto-phenomenon for a few months. I
have a pair of Apisto agassizii Alenquer that are now on their 19th
spawn. The first 15 came at 10 to 15 day intervals (!), were tiny, and
were eaten. If I gave the female whiteworms, she spawned. Suddenly, she
started raising fry, and has slowed down. She's a robust, busy
individual. It's the male who looks worried.
I've never managed to get njisseni past two spawnings - no matter how
good they look, one of them dies. The same for panduro. Cacatuoides have
gone up to six or seven spawnings for me, before the male usually gets
offed.
P. pulcher went for two years of breeding for me. Tell your friend to
get a small heated river.
Interestingly, for all the spawnings, my Alenquer have only raised two
broods so far. BTW, for those who like agas, this population is
astonishing. I highly reccomend grabbing some if they show up in your
part of the world.
-Gary
ALEX PASTOR wrote:
> 
> A couple of months back, Mary Bailey (just love her) wrote in "Practical
> Fishkeeping" that apistos spawn once or twice.  She did not specify if this
> was only in the wild or in an aquarium.
> 
> I acquired my female Borellii almost exactly one year ago.  At that time she
> was an adult, but she did grow another 30% in size.  Since that time and up
> until October she has spawned 8 times.  She raised three broods
> successfully, ate two when they were about one month old (can't blame her,
> tank was crowded and she spawned again), the rest I cannot account for
> because I moved her into a large community tank and I saw fry, but they
> disappeared over time.
> 
> Since October she has not spawned.  Has she reached "fish menopause"?  She
> is eating normally still, but she does not look as sleek as before.
> 
> What I would like to know is: What is the expected lifespan of these fish if
> they are properly kept and eat a good diet?
> 
> As an aside, my cousin Alex, whose computer I hijack regularly, and who is
> being deluged by Kribs, would like someone to let him know about how many
> times these fish spawn.  Pretty soon he is going to have to set up his bath
> tub and shower at my place.  Either that or take my advice and _separate_
> the "love birds".
> 
> Dr. Momfish


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Re:Slow growers (was: Aggie "Alenquer")

by BigJohnW/webtv.net (John Wubbolt)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com

My experience has been about the same as Bob's.    My Cacatuoides color
up at 3 months such that I can easily tell males from females with a 90%
accuracy.   But they won't spawn until about 6 to 7 months.   This holds
pretty much for all of the others I keep.   If I take a pair of
Cacatuoides out of the grow out tank and put just a young male and
female into a 10 gallon by themselves, yes they grow quicker than the
rest in the grow out tank.   I do 30 % water changes every 2 weeks.
Any more then that and I upset the fish.   If you ( Dave) have fish
maturing at 4 months, God bless.   You must do massive water changes and
feed real heavy.  I use black worms, tetra bits, frozen and live brine
shrimp and flake foods as my apistos diet.  I feed once in the morning
and once in the early afternoon before I head to work.   
My fish also live to the 3 to 4 year age but reallly stop being good
spawners after 2 years.   They still spawn after that but its only every
3 or 4 months then.   By then the males are big lunkers at about 4
inches and just want to eat.  
John Wubbolt


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incubation period

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000
To: apisto/listbox.com

Frank,

You are more observant than most breeders. Courtship in apistos is very brief
and, yes, the female initiates it and will try to coax the male to her brood
territory. The male will usually go along if the female's territory is within his
territory.

Mike Wise

"F. Tadeo" wrote:

> i also noticed that she built her nest on the side of a rock, digging a pit
> next to it and laying her eggs on the rock's side, and that she lured the
> male to her nest to spawn.  doesn't the male typically do the courting?
> any help would be appreciated! :)
> -frank


FWD: RE: Sick/Dead Cacatuoides

by Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise/bewellnet.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001
To: apisto/listbox.com

Römer did a study on longevity of apistos and wrote an article on it. In it he
shows that, of 694 specimens of A. cacatuoides that survived to sexual maturity (9
month old), 539 had died by the age of 18 months (78%) and 682 had died by age 27
months (98%). He also notes that a cockatoo was one of his oldest survivors,
reaching an age of over 51 months. Results were similar for other species, i.e.
don't expect your fish to live much over 2 years. Longevity probably depends on
too many factors to separate out the cause. I've found that if I don't work my
apistos like a "spawning mill" that they live longer. Low stress & not overfeeding
are other factors. Still it doesn't entirely explain my pair of wild caught A.
hippolytae that I think just spawned again. I bought them as sexable fish in March
1997. Good charma?

Mike Wise

Matthew Rogers wrote:

> What is the average lifespan of Cac?
>
> I had quite a large male die on me recently and I assumed that the female must
> have killed him because she had spawned and was quite aggressive. He seemed
> perfectly healthy beforehand, so it could have been a question of old age.
>
> >===== Original Message From "Liptrot, Pete" <pete.liptrot@bolton.gov.uk>
> =====
> How old were these fish?  Caca's are not one of the longest lived Apisto's
> so it could be an age related problem.
>
> Pete.
>
>
> -----------------------
> InterMutual Healthcare from Totalise. Peace of mind at an affordable price.
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