Acclimitizing your fish from the store
Contents:
- Problems with wild A. cacatuoides. Ph to low?
by swaldron/slip.net (Steven J. Waldron) (Tue, 3 Feb 1998)
- New list member with questions...
by IDMiamiBob/aol.com (Sat, 26 Feb 2000)
- drip method
by Zack Wilson <aquamaniac/earthlink.net> (Thu, 04 Oct 2001)
- drip method
by "William Vannerson" <William_Vannerson/ama-assn.org> (Fri, 05 Oct 2001)
- drip method
by "Stuart R Scott" <scottyflag/enter.net> (Fri, 05 Oct 2001)
by swaldron/slip.net (Steven J. Waldron)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com
Ed wrote:
>One wholesaler who was also an avid hobbyist had told me that he
>believes that sometimes apistos that are shipped in bulk, and that are
>at some point exposed to higher than 7 ph, may have had their gills
>damaged by ammonia. The ammonia takes on a more deadly form when in
>higher ph water. The fish start dying off in the next couple of days
>and nothing seems to be able to save them. I've purchased 30+ fish at a
>time and watched them die off one by one.
I've seen this time and time again. I do not know about the correlation
between high ammonia levels and high pH. Apistos oten get over packed when
exported out of S.A. They often come in with extensive gill damamge from
high ammonia levels. At the wholesale level, I've had good success with
acclimating the fish over with well-oxygenated, demineralized water, follow
up with anti-parasitic meds. There are some powder remedies available that
liberate alot of oxygen rapidly that seem to help, though I haven't used
these in years. Most wholesalers try to get the fish to adapt to their
centralized, alkaline, doped up system water with little success, very few
know how to handle apistos properly. The problem is transport stress and by
the time the fish have been tanked they are stressed beyond their capacity
to fight off any sort of pathogen. I must say though, shipments have
improved over the years.
- Steve
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by IDMiamiBob/aol.com
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000
To: apisto/majordomo.pobox.com
Chad writes:
> It's interesting that practically every pet store that I have been to will
> tell you to use the slow water exchange in a floating bag system. in fact,
> two of the shops in town put a flyer in your bag when you buy your fish to
> explain the process. Makes you wonder....
Watch how these stores introduce their saltwater fish to the tanks. They
hold the bag over the sink, slit the bag, and catch the fish in a net. Then
they just dump the fish into the tank. Salt water fish are more sensitive
and seem to take it just fine. I talked to a local shopkeeper about this,
and he decided to experiment. He started to do the same with his freshwater
fish, and significantly reduced his losses in the first 72 hours. It isn't
even important to temperature adjust the bag to match the tank. Just make
sure you pick a tank where the temp is somewhere near the middle of the
fishes' prefered range. Been doing the same now for two years. Boy, is my
life easier. :-)
Bob Dixon
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by Zack Wilson <aquamaniac/earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001
To: <apisto/listbox.com>
The ammonium being transformed to ammonia as the pH rises is specifically
why I add a squirt of Amquel to all acclimation containers as soon as the
fish are released into them.
With that, I have had great success, the fish seem to do better for it.
Zack
by "William Vannerson" <William_Vannerson/ama-assn.org>
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001
To: <apisto/listbox.com>
>>>THe guy who came up with this is the guy that invented Amquel and Ammo-lock. He spoke at one of our meetings and he is extremely knowledgeable about chemistry. I remember his initials were JFK ... <<<
His name is John Kuhns. Below is an excerpt from an old Kordon web page that I don't believe exists anymore. There was a big discussion on this topic on the Killie Talk list a few months ago. Check the archives (via www.aka.org) if you want to see the long discussion.
==============================================================
Those of you who have known John Kuhns since his invention of the product NovAqua (marketed by Kordon) have known of his now famous "squirt and dump" method of introducing new fishes into tanks. "Famous" because the method has now been written about in The Complete Fishkeeper. This book, written by Joseph S. Levine is subtitled: "everything aquarium fishes need to stay alive, healthy and happy" is well written and belongs in every aquarist's library, and is the first book that aquarium shops should sell to new aquarists.
The excerpt that tells about the "squirt and dump" method is reproduced here:
Adding Fish to the Tank
Traditional wisdom has it that you must float fish bags in your tank for thirty minutes, mix bag water with tank water, and then tip the bag over and allow the fishes to swim out on their own. I prefer, however, a radical departure from this technique that has been successfully championed by FISHNET member and aquacultural chemist John Kuhns. John's "dose and dump technique," which aims to get the fish out of the bag and into the tank as soon as possible, seems preferableany time there are not dramatic temperature differences between bag and tank water. The method is simple: Add a little quirt of NovAqua water conditioner to the bag, add the appropriate dose to thee tank, remove the fishes from the bag, and dump them into the tank.
This advice will dissturb many old hands at the hobby, but there is sound reasoning behind it, and it has worked well for John and numerous retailers and hobbyists who have followed his advice. Why? While in their shipping bags in small volumes of water, fish are constantly excreting both ammonia (which can build up to harmful levels) and carbon dioxide (which lowers the pH). As soon as you open the bag at home, the CO2 begins to leave the water, and the pH rises, initiating a chain reaction that makes any ammonia in the bag more toxic, So as long as conditions in your tak are suitable, the faster the fish get out of the bag and into the water, the better."
In it Levine correctly reports the reasoning behind the method. He also reports that many old-timers may find the practice questionable, but to paraphrase Stephen Jay Gould: the progress of aquarium keeping is impeded less by "factual lacks" than by "conceptual locks".
At the EECHO Systems' hatchery the method is employed regularly. However, there has been an improvement. Instead of just using a squirt of NovAqua in the bag and the tank, a squirt of AmQuel is also used. The addition of the AmQuel aids, of course, in the reduction of ammonia that has built-up in the bag and in handling the spike of ammonia that often results when new fishes are added to the tank.
The actual method used is as follows (retailers are strongly encouraged to follow this method to reduce the stress on newly arrived fishes):
(1) Set the boxes of newly arrived fishes on the floor in front of the tanks into which the fishes are to be placed.
(2) Open all boxes and inspect them for punctured and deflated bags; if any are found these must be dealt with first (a sort of triage).
(3) Fishes from bags with no water in them must be placed into their new tanks as soon as possible (even fishes which appear to be on death's door will often revive). Since there is no water in the bags simply squirt the NovAqua and AmQuel into the new tank and place the fishes into the treated tank.
(4) Open the remaining bags, roll down the tops, if possible, to form a sort of cuff and leave them standing in their boxes. For smaller bags a helping hand is advised to prevent the bags from spilling their contents. When no help is available the use of suitably sized containers (like large coffee cans or half-gallon ice cream containers or small buckets (like those sold in paint stores for mixing paint)) will work very well.
(5) Squirt the NovAqua and AmQuel into the opened bags (measuring isn't necessary) and into the tanks into which the fishes are to be placed.
(6) As soon as all of the bags and tanks have been dosed with the NovAqua and AmQuel return to the first bags and start transferring all of the fishes to their tanks (obviously dead fishes should not be placed into the tanks, but when in doubt (remember, some shippers use tranquilizers) place them in the tanks). Use bare hands when practicable; use nets when not.
(7) After all bags have been emptied of their fishes double check them for any missed occupants and then discard the water down the drain (in those areas where the sewage isn't sterilized before being discharged into rivers or lagoons, treat the water with chlorine bleach before letting it go down the drain).
(8) Temperature considerations are important only if the tank water is colder than the water in the bags (except for cold water fishes, such as goldfish and koi, where it is better if the tank water is the same temperature or colder than the water in the bags). Using hot or cold tap water in the tanks quickly corrects the temperature differential if needed (remember, the NovAqua and AmQuel completely conditions any added tap water).
(9) Fishes acclimated with the "squirt and dump" method are often ready to feed in a matter of 15 minutes or so. Fishes that were near death in their shipping bags will often revive and will be happily swimming about in a similar time span.
(10) The reasons for not floating bags are quite clear and reasonable:
(a) floated bags warm up increasing the oxygen requirements of the fishes in them
(b) it has been suggested that there is a certain amount of atmospheric gas exchange between the water in the bag and the air outside; this gas exchange is stopped when the bags are immersed in water
(c) bags can be expected to carry contaminating microorganisms on their outside surfaces; floating them allows contamination of the tank water
(d) adding water to the bags almost always increases the pH and thereby immediately increases the toxicity of the ammonia the fishes have excreted during their transportation
(e) aerating the bags will increase the dissolved oxygen concentration and it will drive off some of the accumulated carbon dioxide, but as the carbon dioxide is driven off the pH can be expected to rise, and as in (d) above, the ammonia becomes more toxic
(f) allowing water from the bags to enter the tanks is, of course, a totally irresponsible practice; this introduces not only the pollutants that have accumulated in the bag water, but also disease-causing organisms are introduced to the tank
(g) finally, keeping the fishes in their polluted shipping water longer than necessary is a poor husbandry practice
For more information about this method please contact us at EECHO Systems: jfkuhns@sound.net or jfk@cis.compuserve.com.
Bill Vannerson
McHenry, IL
http://vannerson.home.att.net/
by "Stuart R Scott" <scottyflag/enter.net>
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001
To: "Apisto List" <apisto/listbox.com>
Bill, what you reproduced below is how I learned the do it. However John
has changed it a bit on his site to say to treat the receiving tank and not
the bag. just get the fish out of the bag and into the receiving tank asap.
I have paraphrased a bit. The correct page address is:
http://petsforum.com/aquascience/APInfo/Acclimate.htm
Scotty
***********ORIGINAL MESSAGE ***********
On 10/5/01 at 9:02 AM William Vannerson wrote:
<SNIP>Traditional wisdom has it that you must float fish bags in your tank
for thirty minutes, mix bag water with tank water, and then tip the bag
over and allow the fishes to swim out on their own. I prefer, however, a
radical departure from this technique that has been successfully championed
by FISHNET member and aquacultural chemist John Kuhns. John's "dose and
dump technique," which aims to get the fish out of the bag and into the
tank as soon as possible, seems preferableany time there are not dramatic
temperature differences between bag and tank water. The method is simple:
Add a little quirt of NovAqua water conditioner to the bag, add the
appropriate dose to thee tank, remove the fishes from the bag, and dump
them into the tank.
The Krib
Apistogramma/Dwarf Cichlids
The Krib