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Bad Strains, Inbreeding, etc...


  1. Genetics and natural selection
    by "Steve Waldron" <swaldron/> (Fri, 06 Nov 1998)
  2. New topic! (Inbreeding)
    by BigJohnW/ (John Wubbolt) (Tue, 11 Apr 2000)

Genetics and natural selection

by "Steve Waldron" <swaldron/>
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998
To: apisto/

hi folks,
I have a tendency to agree with Andy's position (i.e. line bred, inbred fish
are prone to inbreeding depression effects) but in the case of Singapore
blue rams- have this caveat: Anything coming from Singapore has a poor
chance of long-term survival; rams, tiger barbs, angels etc. due to effects
of their rearing environment alone. They are raised in a strange soup of
strong doses of formaldehyde, anti-biotics, etc. and seem to fair poorly. I
used to work for an old Malaysian tropical fish farmer, and according to him
it made bad business sense to produce fish that wouldn't have to be replaced
in a week. 

One thing to remember: it is also quite possible to inbreed a fish to
enhance viability by purging recessive deleterious alleles from the
population. I know a breeder who seems to have done this with his strain of
inbred German rams- despite their small adult size and occasional
deformities are actually adapt well to varying water conditions and are good
- Steve
>From: "samaroo" <>
>To: <>
>Subject: Re: Genetics and natural selection
>Date: Thu, Nov 5, 1998, 10:25 PM

>Hello All,
>I've been waiting for someone to bring genetics to this string.  I was
>wondering specifically about the effects of inbreeding depression.
>Others have spoken of the benefits of breeding a strain of apistos through
>more than two generations with regards to keeping a variety of species in
>the hobby, but perhaps this inbreeding also becomes a factor in the poor
>parenting skills of subsequent generations.  If deleterious genes can
>accumulate and effect other aspects of survival, then why not parental
>Take the blue ram as an example.  I like this fish, but would never spend
>money on anything but wild caughts.  I find that breeding aside (WAAAY
>aside),  just keeping Asian bred blue rams and Asian bred "German" blue rams
>ALIVE can be a hit or miss proposition.  If these "power bred" farmed fish
>are so messed up genetically that they can't necessarily stay ALIVE, then
>what is that suggesting about potentially hard wired behaviours like brood
>care? Is it any coincidence that the relatively newer (and potentially less
>inbred) M. altispinosa has both better rates of survival and seemingly brood
>rearing as well? Is it any coincidence that others have reported similarly
>successful experiences with  blue rams when they first entered the hobby
>decades ago?
>Please note that I am not against breeding a line of apistos for multiple
>generations, I enjoy the fact that a wider variety of species are available
>because of this.  I am only suggesting that the potential effects of this
>inbreeding be considered along with the volatile
>" to pull the eggs or not to pull the eggs " debate.
>Just My 2 Cents
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New topic! (Inbreeding)

by BigJohnW/ (John Wubbolt)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000
To: apisto/

Hello Kyle
You can do all of those you asked except for sister - sister, lol, that
won't work!!!!   I have crossed a really nice son back to his mom a
couple of times because She had some color in the fins and i was looking
for more color in my Cacatuoides.   Have done the same with double red
color form of Aggies.   Haven't ended up with tank full of mutants
yet!!!   But then again every so many generations I cross in new blood
to my strains.    Have fun and good luck.


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