Vallisneria
Contents:
- Nitrates in Tanganyikan Tank
by cichlid-at-pine.circa.ufl.edu (KUTTY) (30 Sep 92)
- [F] Plants in Tanks
by dresler-at-cabell.vcu.edu (Dan Resler) (Wed, 27 Apr 1994)
- Val die off..is it natural?
by konshak-at-calshp.cals.wisc.edu (peter konshak) (23 Jun 1994)
- Pruning Giant Vals/CO2
by resler-at-liberty.mas.vcu.edu (Dan Resler) (Tue, 13 Sep 1994)
- Val flowers
by "shaji (s.) bhaskar" <bhaskar-at-bnr.ca> (Fri, 23 Jun 1995)
- Cobomba, Val.vs.Sag and SilverLux
by KB Koh <KB_Koh-at-ccm.ipn.intel.com> (Mon, 22 Jan 96)
- Telling Sagittaria from Vallisneria
by Shaji Bhaskar <shaji-at-nando.net> (Tue, 06 Feb 96)
- Re:Small Val. species
by krombhol/teclink.net (Paul Krombholz) (Sat, 15 Nov 1997)
- Vallisneria problem
by Neil Frank <nfrank/mindspring.com> (Fri, 18 Sep 1998)
- Re:Trimming Val
by SnoTabby/aol.com (Tue, 9 Mar 1999)
- trimming vals
by "Roger S. Miller" <rgrmill/rt66.com> (Tue, 9 Mar 1999)
- Flowering Vallisneria Americana
by Michael Eckardt <mike/odg.com> (Fri, 14 May 1999)
- Aquatic Plants Digest V3 #1031
by Phylesis/aol.com (Sat, 15 May 1999)
- RE:Red marble val
by "Thomas Barr" <tcbiii/earthlink.net> (Wed, 13 Oct 1999)
- Aquatic Plants Digest V4 #61
by "Karl R. Schoeler" <krsfert/citilink.com> (Sat, 29 Jan 2000)
- sag+val?
by "Roger S. Miller" <rgrmill/rt66.com> (Sun, 16 Jan 2000)
- Sags and vals
by Alfred Heng <alheng/pacific.net.sg> (Mon, 17 Jan 2000)
- cutting down Vallisneria gigantea
by jmarella/attbi.com (Mon, 14 Jan 2002)
- comment vallisneria cutting
by Richard_Clark/doh.state.fl.us (Mon, 14 Jan 2002)
by cichlid-at-pine.circa.ufl.edu (KUTTY)
Date: 30 Sep 92
In article <olson.717703212-at-dirac>, (e-mail) (Erik Olson) writes...
> * Just before I left, I transferred a lot of Val. spiralis from a planted
>tank in "because I was just going to throw it out anyway". It has continued
>to grow, albeit slightly stunted & warped. It has also thrown up stalks,
>something it never did in my low-hardness CO2-diffused tank.
I've found that some Vals. like hard water and do well in high-nitrate
tanks. They've never done well in my low-nitrate, low-hardness hi-CO2
tanks.
If you can deal with the new types of algae in your tank, you're set.
It's probably geographically correct to have Vals. in rift lake tanks coz
there is a Val sp. that occurs there (V. aethiopica).
Vinny Kutty
P.S.: yes, I'm still around...occasionally. Netters interested in
growing aquatic plants are welcome to call me at (813) 980-1778
during evenings and weekends for free help/tips...yet another service
of the Aquatic Gardeners Association. Before you call, remember that
I'm in Florida and that I hit the sack pretty early these days.
by dresler-at-cabell.vcu.edu (Dan Resler)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria
narten-at-percival.cs.albany.edu (Thomas Narten) writes:
>tear down your tank? We'll see how you boast then. My two pots of
>vallisneria just croaked after 8 months of wild growth. Either the
>plants themselves don't live forever, or the substrate is now missing
>something. Just the val. is dying. The other plants seem to be doing
>better without the competition.
This is probably not a nutrient problem; it's just part of the life
cycle of Vallisneria. I think. At least mine does the same thing, and I
know others have spoken of theirs behaving in a like manner.
Val. will grow great for while, then send off a runner producing many
plantlets, then die. The leaves turn brown over a few days before
becoming disattached at the substrate level. And it can quickly take over a
tank; for awhile I didn't trim the new plantlets back and I estimated that I
was loosing 1/2" a week of my tank to the growing Val Forest.
dan
--
Dan Resler
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences email: dresler-at-cabell.vcu.edu
Virginia Commonwealth University
Richmond, Virginia, USA 23284-2014
by konshak-at-calshp.cals.wisc.edu (peter konshak)
Date: 23 Jun 1994
Newsgroup: rec.aquaria
I've experienced an almost complete die off of my Vallisneria, and was
wondering if this is natural. I have a 37 gallon mostly plant tank, pH of 7.5,
slightly hard water, no noticeable ammonia, nitrates, etc. The tank is lit
by 60 watts of flourescent light, water temp is around 82 degrees. The Val
was growing great, the stems were about 2-3" long, shading most of the rest
of the tank. This adversely affected my other plants, so I trimmed them back.
Since then, I've lost most of the Val. All the other plants in the tank are
growing fine. I might add that I do regular water changes and add an iron
rich fertilizer after water changes. Does Val go through a sort of "die off"
period, and will it come back? Should I consider it a loss? Could trimming
the leaves back have had an adverse affect? Thanks,
Peter
___________________________________________________
Peter A. Konshak
Information Processing Consultant
UW Madison College of Agriculture and Life Sciences
konshak-at-calshp.cals.wisc.edu
___________________________________________________
by resler-at-liberty.mas.vcu.edu (Dan Resler)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994
Newsgroup: sci.aquaria
In sci.aquaria you write:
>resler-at-liberty.mas.vcu.edu (Dan Resler) writes:
>>Just cut 'em off wherever you want - you won't hurt them or slow down
>>the growth.
>Hmm. My experience with Vals has been that they get the majority of their
>light once they lay across the surface (well, duh!), and I had zero luck
>with them when I cut them back. I guess it just depends on how much light and
>how much you cut them back. Perhaps merely "thinning" them will be OK.
Although I don't claim to have the final answer on this, Vals in my
tank seem to have a definite life cycle. You plant 'em, they don't do
much for a 2 - 4 weeks while they're recovering, then they take off
growing like crazy soon to be followed by throwing out runners like
crazy. After many weeks of throwing off runners I find that most of
the `mother' plants then turn brown and croak. George seems to see
this cycle in his tank as well. Does this jive with your experience?
dan
--
Dan Resler email: resler-at-liberty.mas.vcu.edu
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences
Virginia Commonwealth University
Richmond, VA 23284-2014 USA
by "shaji (s.) bhaskar" <bhaskar-at-bnr.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995
>From: "David Huie" <David.Huie-at-Bentley.COM>
>Subject: Valliseneria "strings"
>
> I just discovered three extremely long "strings" (up to 28" long) that
> have grown up out of the center of my very large Valliseneria asiatica
> (spiral val) and are draped across the surface of the water. They are
> pale green strings that have a thickened tip which looks like it could
> be a bud. Is this the way vallesineria flower?
Yes. When I used to keep Vals, they would flower quite regularly, but
I never managed to get any viable seeds. Vegetative reproduction was
quite fast, though.
> None of the buds have opened and I wondered if I needed to help them
> break contact with the water in order to encourage them to flower.
I've never seen the buds open, either, though the tips do come up a
few millimeters above the water.
> Also, how large can I expect to get my echonidorus parviflorus (black
> amazon swords) to grow? They are small, 12-leaved, and about 3" tall.
> I was hoping they'd grow to 8-9". Any help out there?
Echinodorus parviflorus can get quite big. Eighteen inches is not too
rare. It's not as big as E. bleheri and company.
- -Shaji
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shaji Bhaskar bhaskar-at-bnr.ca
BNR, 35 Davis Dr., RTP, NC 27709, USA (919) 991 7125
by KB Koh <KB_Koh-at-ccm.ipn.intel.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96
>Many people have observed that Sag and Val tend not to do equally
>well in the same tank. One will flourish while the other limps
>along. Whether this is a case of allelochemichals at work, or
>whether it is simply that conditions favor one genus over the
>other is unclear.
This is true according to Rataj. It was mentioned in Vallisneria section
of the Aquarium Plants book. I also found that Sagittaria and certain sp
of Echinodorus will battle and kill each other if they are touching. My
E.Maior (Major?) had sustained more damage than I first though. Had to
throw away almost half of the leaves. One Sag died and the other was
very close before I replant it further away. It now put out new leaf in
addition to the 2 tiny leaves that was left. The allelochemical also
affecting touching E.Quadricostatus but does not seem to affect
E.Amazonicus (yet?).
by Shaji Bhaskar <shaji-at-nando.net>
Date: Tue, 06 Feb 96
I've read of a really easy way to tell distinguish between sagittaria
and val. Run your hand up and down the edge of a leaf. If the edge
is smooth, you have a sag. If you can feel a sawtooth, it's a val.
Don't ask me for the source, I've long forgotten. :-)
- -Shaji.
by krombhol/teclink.net (Paul Krombholz)
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997
>Subject: small vall sp.
Michael W. McGrath wrote Fri, Nov. 14:
>.....What are some vallisneria sp. that are on the smaller size. I
>have a 30g tank, and would like something that only grows to about
>16 inchs, give or take a few inchs. I don't mind it laying on the surface
>some, but the last bunch I picked up ended up covering about 6 inchs
>on the surface and I was losing plants. Oh well, hope to get some info
>soon.
There is a small corkscrew Val that seldom gets to 16 inches, and often is
less than a foot. It has had many names,including V. asiatica var.
biwaensis and V. natans, but Kasselmann, in Aquarienpflanzen, now calls it
Vallisneria americana var. biwaensis. It is your best bet. In contrast to
another corkscrew Val. that has tightly twisted leaves which, also, are
much longer, this variety has a loose spiral, taking two to three inches to
do an 180 degree twist.
Paul Krombholz in, chilly, drippy Jackson, Mississippi where the first hard
freeze is coming.
by Neil Frank <nfrank/mindspring.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998
>Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:45:01 -0500 (CDT)
>From: ronmills-at-webtv.net (ronald mills)
>
>I have a problem growing vallisnera spiralis. The plants put out
>runners, but the new plants never grow over 4 or 5 inches high. The
>parent plants are over 2 feet high. What could be keeping the young
>plants from reaching their normal height? The ph of the water is 7.0, 40
>watts of full spectrum light over a 20 high, laterite in substrate,
>occasional drops of liquid fertilizer per week. partial water changes.
>If anyone has had similar problems, please help with any suggestions.
Val are heavy feeders and need adequate supply of macronutrients (NPK and
Ca). Try a 1/4 of a jobes stick near the older plants or add a solution
with a quarter teaspoon of nitrate of soda (Sodium nitrate). Unless your
fertilizer doesn't have K, I am guessing it is just the N. Also check the
hardness to be sure you have at least 20ppm Ca in the water (GH > 3)
Neil Frank
AGA
by SnoTabby/aol.com
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999
<<> >What is the best way to trim long leafed plants like most vals? Can I
> >just chop them off the top to the desired length, or should I remove the
> >long leaves and allow new ones to replace them?
>>
Why would you want to trim the Val? I personally think it looks pretty flopped
over the top of the tank.
Of course I don't have to worry too much about shading plants underneath it
since it's only anubias, java moss and two crypt species, they get along just
fine with the light that makes it thru.
<<As far as triming the val and it then rotting, that has not been my
experience. I trim my val back to about half tank height once every 3-4 weeks
or so. I don't experience any rot because of this, and there is noticable
growth at the cut tips by the next day.>>
I used to trim my vals back but not to the extent as mentioned in the quote.
Usually I'd trim to be about 2-3" taller than the water's surface--I like that
total top to bottom look of vals. What I noticed is that once in a while a tip
might rot down an inch or two but that always seems to be where it stops.
It's a personal thing I guess. To trim or not to trim, that is the question ;D
Susan
by "Roger S. Miller" <rgrmill/rt66.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, jlemons wrote:
The question was:
> > >What is the best way to trim long leafed plants like most vals? Can I
> > >just chop them off the top to the desired length, or should I remove the
> > >long leaves and allow new ones to replace them?
Karen Randall responded:
> > The best solution is to not choose plants that will outgrow your tank.
> > Failing that, removal of the whole leaf is a much better option. If you
> > strat cutting them, the leaf ends just start to rot back slowly, and you
> > end up trimming further and further back to get rid of the rotted area.
[snip]
> As far as triming the val and it then rotting, that has not been my
> experience. I trim my val back to about half tank height once every 3-4
> weeks or so. I don't experience any rot because of this, and there is
> noticable growth at the cut tips by the next day.
My experience has been consistent with Karen's advice. A cut leaf tends
to rot back from the cut, though this isn't always an immediate effect.
I'm surprised that you see growth at the cut tip. I thought val leaves
grew from the base.
Roger Miller
by Michael Eckardt <mike/odg.com>
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999
> Subject: Flowering Vallisneria Americana
>
> Hi Everyone:
>
> I'm interested in knowing if anyone out there has ever seen the flowers of
> Val. Americana, better yet, information on how they got it to flower.
I've
> been growing them with very high success for over three years, and have
yet
> to see a flower. For the most part, my tanks have always had pretty low
> nutrient levels, but the growth rates have always been pretty good.
>
You may have male plants while you're looking for female flowers. Male
flowers are released from "containers" which grow on stems, about 1-2" long
off the crown. These "containers" (does somebody have the correct label?)
are easily missed due to colour, location and size, and are generally eaten
by snails within 2 days.
The released male flowers float to the surface ("What IS this white
stuff??"), and, if you have a skimmer, you will not notice them.
Michael Eckardt
sun, sun, sun :-)
by Phylesis/aol.com
Date: Sat, 15 May 1999
Vallisnaria are at the hieght of thier bloom season in S. Florida during the
winter, so I would agree that the trigger may be photo period. The female
flower sits poised at the surface of the water waiting for the pollen pack or
ball to float to it and is captured by the flower using the surface tension
of the water. When in bloom in the wild, the Vall forests are covered in
clouds of these pollen packs as they float to the surface from the base of
the male plants. The little fish find them tasty also. It's quite a site.
Daryl
by "Thomas Barr" <tcbiii/earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999
>P.S. My Red Marble Val is now both red and marbled. Man
>those are slow plants to kick in. 6 months of whiney
>spindly green leaves, then boom 3/4" wide and RED.
>One of my all time favorite plants.
Me too! One of the best vals for a many species tank. If you've had trouble
with vals in the past try this one. Prolific runners and good lighting
tolerances(low or high). Mine get very long(4-5feet in lenght) but new
runners are kept and the long ones are sold off. If you get one that's been
grown in a happy tank there is no 6 month break-in period. I think everyone
can truly appreciate the leaves on this plant. It is stunning. Just because
they get tall, it doesn't mean you can have them BTW if you have shallow
tanks. They make nice cover on the top surface and only put out a few leaves
instead of so many that it smothers the surface. Good red plant also.
Regards,
Tom Barr
by "Karl R. Schoeler" <krsfert/citilink.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000
> From: IDMiamiBob@aol.com
> Subject: Crystal Val?
>
> I had to move the 55-gallon planted tank ( Women- it was two days ago, and
> now she wants it on the other side of the room) which has become covered
in
> Valisneria. I ordered Crystal val, and thought that was what I had until
it
> started getting longert and longer. The info at the AAG website said it
only
> got to 24 " long. This stuff measures 42" long. Can it still be crystal
> val, or is it something else?
>
> I'd like to replace it with something shorter while I have it all ripped
> apart anyway. Suggestions?
>
> Bob Dixon
>
Bob,
Given the proper conditions Vallisneria "Crystal River" is a very robust,
invasive and large(long) plant. I have 1/2 of a 75gal full of it. It needs
a complete overhaul evey sixty to ninety days. My local LFS gets about 60
to 70 of the older plants, and I replant the youngsters for future trading
material. While this stirs up the substrate a bit, there is no long lasting
problem.
Vallisneria simply grows long when the right conditions are met. I have a
75gal planted with Val "Contortionist" which barely reaches the surface.
Much lower light, less CO2 and modest water column fertilizer. The same
plant in my 240 gal which has optimum light, strong CO2, and strong water
column fertilizer reaches a length of 36 to 40" and is thicker, much
greener, as coiled as any "corkscrew" I've ever seen, and wider-leafed.
While it sounds as though you might be complaining, I have a hunch you are
really pretty happy to have this "problem".
There are a couple of Vallisneria asiatica species which may fit your needs.
Availability and identification are sometimes a problem. Check with your
local Aquarium Society or some of the plant sellers' websites. As with
most plants, even with a description of size color and other
characteristics, tank conditions will have a definite impact. Otherwise,
harvest, harvest harvest! 8-)
Regards,
Karl
http://www.substrategold.com
by "Roger S. Miller" <rgrmill/rt66.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000
Folks,
There's an old factoid that Sagittaria and Vallisneria won't grow well
together because of some kind of allelopathic interaction. I think I
first saw that asserted among the first posts I ever read on *.aquaria, I
mentioned it a while back in my first ever letter to this list and it's
mentioned rather casually in Diana Walstad's book.
I have Sagittaria subulata and Vallisneria americana growing in the same
55 gallon tank. The vals have leaves 1/2 inch wide and 3 1/2 feet long.
The sag has leaves about the same width and up to 9 inches long (or so). I
have to ruthlessly cull the stands of both plants to keep them from
getting too big and too crowded.
Today while cleaning that tank I noticed that the two stands were not just
living happy, separate lives, but had intergrown. All participants in the
party appeared to be having a good time. At least, that is, until I
culled the interlopers.
Is there actual evidence for allelopathy between Val. and Sag? Or is this
just an internet legend?
Roger Miller
by Alfred Heng <alheng/pacific.net.sg>
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000
Hi Roger
I read that too, and it wasn't until 6 months later when I had a forest of
long blade grass taking over my tank, did I realise that the giant vals
were giant sags and they had already mixed in very well with all other
smaller vals.
Alfred
At 03:48 AM 1/17/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 21:41:24 -0700 (MST)
>From: "Roger S. Miller" <rgrmill@rt66.com>
>Subject: sag+val?
>
>Folks,
>
>There's an old factoid that Sagittaria and Vallisneria won't grow well
>together because of some kind of allelopathic interaction. I think I
>first saw that asserted among the first posts I ever read on *.aquaria, I
>mentioned it a while back in my first ever letter to this list and it's
>mentioned rather casually in Diana Walstad's book.
>
>I have Sagittaria subulata and Vallisneria americana growing in the same
>55 gallon tank. The vals have leaves 1/2 inch wide and 3 1/2 feet long.
>The sag has leaves about the same width and up to 9 inches long (or so). I
>have to ruthlessly cull the stands of both plants to keep them from
>getting too big and too crowded.
>
>Today while cleaning that tank I noticed that the two stands were not just
>living happy, separate lives, but had intergrown. All participants in the
>party appeared to be having a good time. At least, that is, until I
>culled the interlopers.
>
>Is there actual evidence for allelopathy between Val. and Sag? Or is this
>just an internet legend?
>
>
>Roger Miller
In sunny Singapore - if it's not raining!
Visit my humble fish site: http://members.delphi.com/alheng
by jmarella/attbi.com
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002
"does regularly trimming giant vals harm the plants irreparably? i've been
doing it since the long leaves tend to take over the surface of the tanks
but i've noticed that they have not been growing back as fast as before. "
I've noticed the same problem with some vallisneria gigantea that I
had in my tank, so I think you're onto something. That plant, in my
experience anyway, doesn't seem to like being trimmed and eventually
it seems like the growth becomes stunted. After several months of
trimming the tops on mine, the plants decided to stop growing
altogether. It wasn't dying, but it also wasn't growing. The thinner
leaved Vals seem more tolerant to trimming, but I think they also are
eventually effected. Fortunately, those put out so many runners that
there is always a supply of new plants to work with.
It also seems like the shorter you trim Vallisneria gigantea, the
worse the problems becomes.
JoAnn
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by Richard_Clark/doh.state.fl.us
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002
When I was working with Vallisneria Americana in graduate school trimming
the leaves did eventually slow the growth of the plants and could eventually
cause death. The question we were trying to answer was: Does grazing in the
wild stimulate stolon reproduction? We found that a grazing response slowed
stolon reproduction, but the increased light availability actually allowed
germinating seedlings from the seed bank to grow and establish. The end
result was increased genetic diversity within the bed, as well as, mixing
male and female plants to close proximity to each other.
I have done a lot of work on val seed germination so if you are interested
in that just email me off the list.
Rick
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