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The Krib
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David Whittacker says:
>>Your value for iron in Duplaplant fertilizer tablets of 0.3 ppm does not agree with the 234 ppm that George posted which brings us back to my statement that the "apples and oranges" comparison does not fly.<<
Dave, thanks for noticing the typo in my table. There were too many values of 0.3ppm :-) I must now modify my arguments.
David also says:
>>How you mix the apples and oranges matters little. You are still left with a shortfall of certain essential elements. Keep in mind that George tries to maintain a level of 0.1 ppm iron in his tanks and may use laterite which would add even more iron to the water.<<
I still think that the mixing of the apples and the oranges (the relative doses of each) is an important determinant. It is also important to know FOR SURE if ALL the iron contained in the tablets, (and the laterite) actually go into solution. The same is true for the Dupla drops. Both you and Kevin are assuming that the dose of the tablet is based on a final iron concentration of 0.1. How did you decide this? I will concede that some of the trace elements would APPEAR to be in short supply if the later assumption is true. :-)
I am going out on a limb here (please note that I am not a chemist), but suppose that some or all of the iron in the tablets is not chelated and it is not intended to raise the iron concentration in the water to 0.1ppm. After all, it is used in conjuction with DAILY drops. If both yield the same endpoint, then the day for using tablets would cause Fe to be 0.2ppm?? Although the reason is not immediately apparent to me, perhaps the tablet's iron is intended to deposit into the substrate, say for ultimate conversion under anerobic conditions. Or, it is intended to react with something else, like phosphates! For example, iron chloride will cause phosphates to precipitate as iron phosphate. (this was discussed in TAG V7n1). Unfortunately, George's more complete analysis does not present chloride concentrations so we cannot evaluate this hypothesis. After Jim Kelly did his investigation of laterite, he made me think that phosphate removal may be one of its potential advantages. The same could be true for other components of the Dupla approach. I think we need to get Kaspar involved. :-)
For future discussion, here is the corrected table. It would still be nice to add the relative K, N, Mg and trace element proportions from the ppdd.
| Tropica MasterGrow (%) | Duplaplant-24 Drops (ppm) | Duplaplant Tablet (ppm) | Dupla Duplagan cond. (ppm) | B5 plant tissue culturing media* (mg) | DAI tablet (ppm) | PP Ltd. trace element Powder (ppm) | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| K | .79 | - | 2490. | 10.0 | - | 17.3 | - |
| P | - | 0.7 | 0.3 | 1.0 | - | 7 | - |
| N | - | - | - | - | - | 14.4 | - |
| Mg | .39 | - | 0.3 | 509.0 | - | .15 | - |
| B | .004 | 2.0 | 6.7 | - | 3000 | .03 | 1.3 |
| Cu | .006 | 0.1 | 0.2 | - | 25 | .008 | 0.1 |
| Fe | 0.07 | 1180.0 | 234. | 0.3 | 40000 | .19 | 7 |
| Mn | .04 | 1.3 | 36.8 | - | 10000 | .003 | 2 |
| Mo | .002 | - | 0.7 | - | 25 | - | 0.06 |
| Zn | .002 | 0.1 | 0.6 | 0.3 | 2000 | .01 | 0.4 |
| Co | - | - | - | - | 25 | - | - |
| ETDA | - | - | - | - | Yes | - | 42 |
| HEEDTA | yes | - | - | - | - | - | - |
| DTPA | yes | - | - | - | - | - | 13 |
| E123 | yes | - | - | - | - | - | - |
Notes:
Neil Frank
Aquatic Gardeners Association, Raleigh NC
>From: sywang-at-whale.st.usm.edu (Shiao Y. Wang)
>Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 00:26:01 -0500 (CDT)
>Subject: Composition of plant micronutrient supplement
>
>Once in a while, someone asks about the composition of aquatic plant nutrient
>supplements. The following is the composition of the micronutrient mix I
>use. Each liter contains:
>
>EDTA sodium ferric salt (chelated iron) 40 g
>Na2MoO4.2H2O (molybdenum) 250 mg
>H3BO3 (boron) 3 g
>MnCl2.4H2O (manganese) 10 g
>ZnSO4.7H2O (zinc) 2 g
>CoCl2.6H2O (cobalt) 25 mg
>CuSO4.5H2O (copper) 25 mg
>
Besides N and P, some of the notable differences between Shiao's use of the
B5 media and use of other commercially available fertilizers is lack of
Potassium (K) and Magnesium (Mg). Obviously, K is major ingredient of Dupla
tablets and is also provided in Tropica formula and DAI tablets. Fish food
will supply some K, but it is relatively low. Mg is found in several
products (the major nutrient provided by Duplagan) and may be needed to
correct deficiencies in soft tap water. Another possible consideration is
type of chelators. I have no idea about the Cobalt, but I note that it was
not included in analysis of some products.
I thought that this was a good time to compare the relative nutrient
concentrations of different preparations. I ran out of space, and interest
:), so I did not include everything that is out there. In the attached table
I used whatever units were available, so the magnitude of the numbers can't
be directly compared. I invite others to expand the table.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Relative Concentrations of Commercial Aquatic Plant Fertilizers
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
B5 plant PP Ltd
Tropica Dupla Dupla Dupla tissue DAI trace
Master Daily plant Duplagan culture tablet element
Grow drops Tablet condit. media* Powder
(%) (ppm) (ppm) (ppm) (mg) (ppm) (ppm)
- --------------------------------------------------------------
K .79 2490. 10.0 17.3
P - 0.7 0.3 1.0 7
N - 14.4
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Mg .39 0.3 509.0 .15
- --------------------------------------------------------------
B .004 2.0 6.7 3000 .03 1.3
Cu .006 0.1 0.2 25 .008 0.1
Fe .07 1180.0 0.3 0.3 40000 .19 7
Mn .04 1.3 36.8 10000 .003 2
Mo .002 0.7 25 0.06
Zn .002 0.1 0.6 0.3 2000 .01 0.4
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Co 25
- --------------------------------------------------------------
ETDA Yes 42
HEEDTA yes
DTPA yes 13
E123 yes
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Notes:
1. Dupla Tablet is ppm of element from tablet dissolved in unknown amount
of
distilled water (as per G. Booth)
2. B5 Tissue culture media is concentration of compounds EDTA sodium
ferric
salt, Na2MoO4.2H2O, H3BO3,MnCl2.4H2O, ZnSO4.7H2O, CoCl2.6H2O, CuSO4.5H2O
(dosage is 30 ml /30 gal of water in 75 gal tank, per Shiao Y. Wang)
3. Other elemental concentrations known to exist in the above
fertilizers(such as Ca, S, Cl, Na, Cr, Si, Pb, V, Al, etc.) are not shown.
4. Cobalt (Co) was not included in the analysis of all products.
5. PP Ltd powder is hydroponic trace element mixture previously reported
by
David Whittacker.
Neil Frank Editor of "The Aquatic Gardener" Aquatic Gardeners Association
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